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Thread: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    The average Chinese person would find you paranoid and WTF crazy if you thought China was trying to go to war with the US. This is just the paranoia of the man at the top of the totem pole for the moment.

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And prior to 1940, Japan's largest trading partner was The United States. Ric! You're on to something here!
    Thanks, I appreciate that

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    The world has changed since then.

    You're a smart but misinformed guy. You know what MAD is...

    So how can you have a war without MAD being a factor...

    I mean the USSR and America never went to war because of it. Why is this any different?

    And you could just as easily say that China is dependent on your money, as opposed to you being dependent on their industry...
    Like I said....Germany's largest trading partner in 1940 was France. However, that didn't stop them from starting a war. Japan's largest trading partner in 1940 was the US.

    We don't learn from history. We sold Japan the steel and resources they needed to militarize. When we cut them off due to their aggression in China it was too late. They had already built their military and then decided that they had no choice but to go to war for the resources they considered their due, or sink back to being a second or third rate nation. They chose Pearl Harbor.

    We dump billions and billions of dollars into the Chinese economy, which they in turn use to purchase military technology from abroad and improve their own production capability.

    In the real world, it isn't just dollars, cents, yuan and the profit margin. It is national survival.


    Pure logic doesn't apply to international relations. Most wars of aggression are not logical, they are emotional, and they assume results that are usually more hopeful than rational, Jet

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Like I said....Germany's largest trading partner in 1940 was France. However, that didn't stop them from starting a war. Japan's largest trading partner in 1940 was the US.

    We don't learn from history. We sold Japan the steel and resources they needed to militarize. When we cut them off due to their aggression in China it was too late. They had already built their military and then decided that they had no choice but to go to war for the resources they considered their due, or sink back to being a second or third rate nation. They chose Pearl Harbor.

    We dump billions and billions of dollars into the Chinese economy, which they in turn use to purchase military technology from abroad and improve their own production capability.

    In the real world, it isn't just dollars, cents, yuan and the profit margin. It is national survival.


    Pure logic doesn't apply to international relations. Most wars of aggression are not logical, they are emotional, and they assume results that are usually more hopeful than rational, Jet
    There's one issue with your entire logic Ric.

    #1: Those wars happened before Nuclear Weapons were invented.

    #2: Everything was made in Factories, that could be captured by the invading countries and turned to them for their benefit.

    #3: The Wealth of a country was physical. So it could be captured and transported back to the invading country for their benefit.

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    There's one issue with your entire logic Ric.

    #1: Those wars happened before Nuclear Weapons were invented.

    #2: Everything was made in Factories, that could be captured by the invading countries and turned to them for their benefit.

    #3: The Wealth of a country was physical. So it could be captured and transported back to the invading country for their benefit.
    Think out of the box....

    I think the reason that all admins since Nixon have suffered from a certain amount of flawed thinking.....I think our rationale was that if we open up Chinese markets to OUR goods, we'll sell lots of stuff and make money. When exposed to our culture and our consumer products, communism will fall. We didn't foresee their version of socialized capitalism and that the planners have also fallen into the trap that the more business we do with them, the less capability they will have to fight a war with us without hurting themselves.

    As I stated before, that ignores history, and it also ignores their ability to take hits. If 1,000,000 people starve to death in China because of a glitch in their economy, do you think they (the leaders) will really care when their population is 1,306,313,812? Or will they see it as a silver lining since their population is already too large?

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Think out of the box....

    I think the reason that all admins since Nixon have suffered from a certain amount of flawed thinking.....I think our rationale was that if we open up Chinese markets to OUR goods, we'll sell lots of stuff and make money. When exposed to our culture and our consumer products, communism will fall. We didn't foresee their version of socialized capitalism and that the planners have also fallen into the trap that the more business we do with them, the less capability they will have to fight a war with us without hurting themselves.

    As I stated before, that ignores history, and it also ignores their ability to take hits. If 1,000,000 people starve to death in China because of a glitch in their economy, do you think they (the leaders) will really care when their population is 1,306,313,812? Or will they see it as a silver lining since their population is already too large?
    So you're still completely ignoring the fact of a little something called NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

    And are basicaly continuing this conversation for the sake of it. Not taking MAD into account...

    Live in your own world. Whatever dude.

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    So you're still completely ignoring the fact of a little something called NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

    And are basicaly continuing this conversation for the sake of it. Not taking MAD into account...

    Live in your own world. Whatever dude.
    Study your history. Nations start out young, small and energetic. They either expand and conquer the nations around them through military conquest, IMMIGRATION and ASSIMILATION, or merger, or suffer that same fate. As a nation ages, it eventually slows. It may grow rich and bloated, or slow and weak. Eventually, a younger, stronger nation will succeed in supplanting it.

    At some point, a government consider's it's survival and power to be of greater importance than that of its citizen's or subjects.

    Drop it down and you see the same thing with corporations. Our constitution is the only thing that has kept some controls on the government and kept us from sliding into a dictatorship and eventual revolution. Corporations are constrained only by the power of laws and the ability of the government to fine, tax or criminally & civilly prosecute the management.

    With this as premise, look another look at China. "China" is old, but the People's Republic of China is not. At the beginning of the 20th Century, China was a backward nation that couldn't control its borders or its economy and was subject to the whims of the "Great Powers". Japan, a nation with a far smaller population, was able to conquer large parts of China and probably could have completed the job if not for US intervention.

    The People's Republic of China took over in 1949 and commenced a total rebuilding of the country. Something that has gone through a couple of evolutions along the way. The Chinese consider their culture to be superior to all others. The leadership may publicly decry the old age of the emperors, but they've simply changed names and stepped into their place. They maintain the old Chinese position that they are the center of the world and everyone else are barbarians. They are still working to overcome the humiliation of the last century when barbarians dictated what happened in China, and the perception that China is/was a 3rd world country and is inferior to the west.

    China also takes a long term view of the world, history and the future. They will continue to do business with the US and other western nations because it brings capital into the country, which they need to continue the modernization of the country. But when they believe they no longer need us and the opportunity has arrived, they will strike against us.

    Get back to the government as an organism. Modern Chinese history is full of proof that the lives of their citizens are not important to the government. They slaughtered millions in the cultural revolution. They had not problem killing protesters in Tiananmen Square. Prisoners labor in slave labor camps and when they die or are executed, their organs are harvested. The Chinese government is perfectly willing to trade the lives of millions of their people in a nuclear war with the US if they think it will result in the ascension of China and the fall of the US.

    Think out of the box, dude. You are too narrow minded
    Last edited by ric27; 10-05-10 at 12:50 AM.

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    China. The New Islam.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Study your history. Nations start out young, small and energetic. They either expand and conquer the nations around them through military conquest, IMMIGRATION and ASSIMILATION, or merger, or suffer that same fate. As a nation ages, it eventually slows. It may grow rich and bloated, or slow and weak. Eventually, a younger, stronger nation will succeed in supplanting it.

    At some point, a government consider's it's survival and power to be of greater importance than that of its citizen's or subjects.

    Drop it down and you see the same thing with corporations. Our constitution is the only thing that has kept some controls on the government and kept us from sliding into a dictatorship and eventual revolution. Corporations are constrained only by the power of laws and the ability of the government to fine, tax or criminally & civilly prosecute the management.

    With this as premise, look another look at China. "China" is old, but the People's Republic of China is not. At the beginning of the 20th Century, China was a backward nation that couldn't control its borders or its economy and was subject to the whims of the "Great Powers". Japan, a nation with a far smaller population, was able to conquer large parts of China and probably could have completed the job if not for US intervention.

    The People's Republic of China took over in 1949 and commenced a total rebuilding of the country. Something that has gone through a couple of evolutions along the way. The Chinese consider their culture to be superior to all others. The leadership may publicly decry the old age of the emperors, but they've simply changed names and stepped into their place. They maintain the old Chinese position that they are the center of the world and everyone else are barbarians. They are still working to overcome the humiliation of the last century when barbarians dictated what happened in China, and the perception that China is/was a 3rd world country and is inferior to the west.

    China also takes a long term view of the world, history and the future. They will continue to do business with the US and other western nations because it brings capital into the country, which they need to continue the modernization of the country. But when they believe they no longer need us and the opportunity has arrived, they will strike against us.

    Get back to the government as an organism. Modern Chinese history is full of proof that the lives of their citizens are not important to the government. They slaughtered millions in the cultural revolution. They had not problem killing protesters in Tiananmen Square. Prisoners labor in slave labor camps and when they die or are executed, their organs are harvested. The Chinese government is perfectly willing to trade the lives of millions of their people in a nuclear war with the US if they think it will result in the ascension of China and the fall of the US.

    Think out of the box, dude. You are too narrow minded
    Think outside the box?

    I think you're thinking inside a thimble...

    So you're ignoring MAD completely, and think that both countries completely wiping eachother off the face of the Earth, somehow means that China will emerge ahead.... completely destroyed and uninhabitable...

    What?

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    Re: O'Donnell said China plotting to take over US

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    When all you've got is a hammer ...

    ric's way out of his league on this topic, but he'll never admit it.
    LOl, jump in dude and lets see what you have

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