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Thread: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's clearly nonsense. How far do the sins of our fathers extend?
    In Christianity it goes beck to the first two people.

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's clearly nonsense. How far do the sins of our fathers extend? Surely there must be a stale-date on them.

    I certainly wouldn't blame the Germans of today for starting wars and committing genocide, nor would I judge the Spanish or Italians for supporting Fascism. It seems goofy Eurolefties are only in the unforgiving department when it involves Americans.
    And yet it happens on a daily basis on these boards and in the media/debates. Like it or not, the sins of our fathers are a problem we have to deal with, especially if we dont want to repeat them. The French still get ridiculed on a daily basis by American's because they surrendered to the German's in WW2. The Germans get the "nazi" jab when ever someone starts to loose an argument against them and the Brits are great at reminding the Germans about the war. Israel officials go often out of their way to remind people of the holocaust as often as they can. People use "guilt" against people they disagree with on a daily basis and there is enough guilt to go around.

    Of course there is a time limit of sorts.. I dont feel shame for how the Vikings raped the English Islands, but I do feel a bit shamed over the Danish owned slave farms in the West Indies and feel a lot of shame and responsibility to what happened during WW2. I am not saying that we should feel responsibility for the sins of our fathers that happened 200+ years ago, but stuff that happened in recent history.. you betcha. The US should feel guilty as a nation for the **** that it did to these people in Honduras and its own people (native American's and black American's) later on.. Every nation has its dark moments.. The French and Algeria, Spain and Franco, Britain and its former colonies, Germany, Italy and Ethiopia, Turkey and the Ottoman Empire and so on. Ignoring these sins just because they happened before you were born and not feeling guilty that your nation could do such things... is just... pathetic denial.

    Plus if we dont acknowledge our sins, then we are doomed to repeat them.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    PeteEU The French still get ridiculed on a daily basis by American's because they surrendered to the German's in WW2.
    Then point out something they said today. In fact the French are ridiculed for their anti Americanism, just as are other Western Europeans.
    The Germans get the "nazi" jab when ever someone starts to loose an argument against them and the Brits are great at reminding the Germans about the war
    .

    Yes, I saw that Fawlty Towers episode. Those who use these arguments from the past should think twice. When Germans start lecturing Americans about "the Indians", for example, then it's fair to remind them of their own horrendous history. No European is in any position of taking a 'Holier than thou' attitude with Americans, not with their history.
    Israel officials go often out of their way to remind people of the holocaust as often as they can.
    Well I suppose they well might, considering that other holocausts by ignorant Muslims are being discussed openly today. That is not just history, it is ongoing.

    People use "guilt" against people they disagree with on a daily basis and there is enough guilt to go around.
    If someone is guilty of contemporary crimes then it is fair game. If it is ancestral it is not, unless they are condoning, excusing or repeating those same crimes today.
    Of course there is a time limit of sorts.. I dont feel shame for how the Vikings raped the English Islands, but I do feel a bit shamed over the Danish owned slave farms in the West Indies and feel a lot of shame and responsibility to what happened during WW2. I am not saying that we should feel responsibility for the sins of our fathers that happened 200+ years ago, but stuff that happened in recent history.. you betcha.
    So you feel we should continue to slag the French, Russians and Germans? Go ahead, but unless they are defending Nazism, Fascism or Communism, I'll probably defend them.
    The US should feel guilty as a nation for the **** that it did to these people in Honduras and its own people (native American's and black American's) later on.
    .

    LOL! It's not up to some Eurolefty to decide whether Americans should still feel guilty or not. You should look closer to home if your searching for someone to find fault with.
    .Every nation has its dark moments.. The French and Algeria, Spain and Franco, Britain and its former colonies, Germany, Ital and Ethiopia, Turkey and the Ottoman Empire and so on. Ignoring these sins just because they happened before you were born and not feeling guilty that your nation could do such things... is just... pathetic denial.
    What a small miserable life you must lead.

    Plus if we dont acknowledge our sins, then we are doomed to repeat them.
    We can learn from the past certainly but those lessons are often lost, only to be repeated over and over again. We can see that going on today.

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Let me know when the experiements could cause you to die a horrible death as a direct result of the experiement
    Economic ruin, legal oppression, government stealing from American's (eminent domain), it could cause a horrible death or depression up to suicide all the time. So... how about that compensation?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Post Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah
    That's your silly interpretation because you - assume - that the current power brokers in Washington are keenly aware of every dark secret perpetrated by government predecessors. The likelihood of this knowledge-omnipotence is as nil as your assumption.
    I'm not assuming that Hillary Clinton or the "current power brokers in Washington [were] keenly aware" of this event, but rather that because they are just as willing to enact such monstrous policies, that they have no moral basis on which to apologize. They only care about realpolitik, not principles.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I'm not assuming that Hillary Clinton or the "current power brokers in Washington [were] keenly aware" of this event, but rather that because they are just as willing to enact such monstrous policies, that they have no moral basis on which to apologize. They only care about realpolitik, not principles.
    Do you ever stop with the assumptions and the US = Evil shtick?

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then point out something they said today. In fact the French are ridiculed for their anti Americanism, just as are other Western Europeans.
    And yet you use historical aspects to ridicule them.. hence thank you for proving my point.

    Yes, I saw that Fawlty Towers episode. Those who use these arguments from the past should think twice. When Germans start lecturing Americans about "the Indians", for example, then it's fair to remind them of their own horrendous history. No European is in any position of taking a 'Holier than thou' attitude with Americans, not with their history.
    Germans only start to "lecturing" American's about the Indians because of American's lecturing them about their past. It is the same thing every time... some arrogant self righteous American slams an European country because said European country is not bending over and taking it up the arse by accepting US policy, and said arrogant self righteous American uses historical "fact" that he has been selectively taught by his political masters to use.. The French get their WW2 surrender slammed in their face and of course the Germans get the holocaust.. but how DARE we fight back and do the same to American's pointing out their not so pretty history and break the illusion of near divinity...

    Well I suppose they well might, considering that other holocausts by ignorant Muslims are being discussed openly today. That is not just history, it is ongoing.
    Eh? The holocaust was not done by Muslims but by Christians.. And it is history, just as the American genocide of the native American population is history.

    If someone is guilty of contemporary crimes then it is fair game. If it is ancestral it is not, unless they are condoning, excusing or repeating those same crimes today.
    In other words, you are too ashamed in admitting any wrong doing by your nation (what ever that is) in the past that you put on an arbitrary rule saying "it has to be contemporary but only if I think it is okay"?.

    So you feel we should continue to slag the French, Russians and Germans? Go ahead, but unless they are defending Nazism, Fascism or Communism, I'll probably defend them.
    .
    HAHHA, yea right that would be the day. When have you ever defended Europeans on these boards? You are usually the one leading the anti-European charge for god sake.

    LOL! It's not up to some Eurolefty to decide whether Americans should still feel guilty or not. You should look closer to home if your searching for someone to find fault with.
    If you noticed, I did acknowledge my own countries dirty history and that of many other European countries. And I aint a "Eurolefty" by any standard. That slur is just as idiotic as the usual anti-French slur by Americans.

    What a small miserable life you must lead.
    In other words, you dont like historical fact because it does not meet with your right wing fairytale world.

    We can learn from the past certainly but those lessons are often lost, only to be repeated over and over again. We can see that going on today.
    They are repeated because people refuse to learn from the past. It is not brain surgery. Any idiot could have said going into Afghanistan would be hard if not impossible.. how? because the mightiest Empire in human history failed to do so and as well as the Russians.. ya know.. historical fact.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Th

    Between 1985 and 1992, the United States provided Guatemala about $936 million total aid.

    That should cover any past damages and a half.

    This BS invites trouble.
    Money doesn't always fix things. Particularly in cases like this.

    As foreign a concept as this might be to you.......its not about the money.
    If life gives you Melons you probably have dyslexia.

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What about the people who voted for the other candidate that lost?
    Are they still responsible?
    Yes.
    Unless they give up their citizenship, it is still their country, and their government.
    If life gives you Melons you probably have dyslexia.

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    Re: U.S. to apologize for STD experiments in Guatemala

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    That's bull****. This was a SECRET PROGRAM which was kept hidden from the American people.

    Why? Because the government knew that the program DID NOT represent the will of the American people.

    You really can't grasp this simplicity?
    Do you really grasp the simplicity of the idea that the Government is the people? Thats kinda what a representitive democrasy is about. When all is said and done, the government is responsible to it's people, the people are responsible for the government.
    When they ascend to office, whatever they do, they do in your name.
    If life gives you Melons you probably have dyslexia.

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