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Thread: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    As much as it pains me to agree, I have to under the avaiable evidence. I think they should still be charged with invasion of privacy but I imagine these kids have already been traumatized enough by their actions. This was an act of immaturity and while they appeared to play into an anti gay bias, I don't think this was entirely motivated by it. These were kids bringing a high school mentality into a college environment and they were seeking to appear cool by publicly embarrassing someone else. For all I can tell, they weren't even bullying him because for all they knew, he was unaware that he was being watched through the webcam. It could have, and may have, escalated into bullying, but that is yet to be seen.

    If it is clear later that this escalated into outright bullying then there is more grounds to hold them accountable for his suicide. Bullying can lead to people taking their own lives. As much as the "personal responsibility" line is touted, if an environment is made hostile and emotionally aversive enough, it can drive a person to suicide. Acceptance and belonging are basic human needs as much as water and food are and we would die without them.
    While I appreciate your compassion, I have to disagree that a bullying atmosphere is still grounds to charge them with murder. He attended that school, lived in that particular dormitory, and associated with those particular people by choice. If he wasn't finding acceptance and belonging among them, there are countless other circles of friends to find his way among.

    Only he had the power to jump off that bridge. No one pushed him, inadverently or otherwise, off of it. He did that to himself. There is ZERO grounds for holding these kids accountable for anything other than invasion of privacy.

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    In this case, it's unclear whether they committed a felony (or even a crime), and even so, the felony is not of the proper type and the death didn't occur in the course of the crime.
    Quick question...

    Being that the room was shared by both of the boys, is it really even an invasion of privacy that he turned on the web cam on his desk in his own room?

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Quick question...

    Being that the room was shared by both of the boys, is it really even an invasion of privacy that he turned on the web cam on his desk in his own room?
    I know next to nothing about NJ law and little about this type of crim law in general, but I think that you can be charged with invasion of privacy even if it involves your room.

    Here's the law in question:

    1. a. An actor commits a crime of the fourth degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would know that another may expose intimate parts or may engage in sexual penetration or sexual contact, he observes another person without that person's consent and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.

    b.An actor commits a crime of the third degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he photographs, films, videotapes, records, or otherwise reproduces in any manner, the image of another person whose intimate parts are exposed or who is engaged in an act of sexual penetration or sexual contact, without that person's consent and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.

    c.An actor commits a crime of the third degree if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he discloses any photograph, film, videotape, recording or any other reproduction of the image of another person whose intimate parts are exposed or who is engaged in an act of sexual penetration or sexual contact, unless that person has consented to such disclosure. For purposes of this subsection, "disclose" means sell, manufacture, give, provide, lend, trade, mail, deliver, transfer, publish, distribute, circulate, disseminate, present, exhibit, advertise or offer. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection b. of N.J.S.2C:43-3, a fine not to exceed $30,000 may be imposed for a violation of this subsection.
    Currently they're being charged with all three. I think that the second and third charges will be dropped once the furor dies down, as there's no evidence that there was any "intimate parts" exposed or any "sexual penetration or sexual contact" on camera. That leaves the first charge, which is only 4th degree, and possibly a charge for attempted 3rd degree, which usually receives the same penalty as a 4th degree crime.

    In order to prove the 4th degree charge, they would have to show that "under circumstances in which a reasonable person would know that another may expose intimate parts or may engage in sexual penetration or sexual contact, he observes another person without that person's consent and under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed." I certainly don't think it's impossible for the state to prove that, but I can see some arguments that the defendants may raise that could get them off, such as the claim that they didn't expect to see nudity when they turned on the cam, there wasn't a reasonable expectation of privacy because the roommate could have just walked back in, that he believed he had the right to look at his room, etc.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 10-03-10 at 03:38 PM.
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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    While I appreciate your compassion, I have to disagree that a bullying atmosphere is still grounds to charge them with murder. He attended that school, lived in that particular dormitory, and associated with those particular people by choice. If he wasn't finding acceptance and belonging among them, there are countless other circles of friends to find his way among.
    Not murder, involuntary manslaughter. However, from his posts it sounds like Rutgers makes it difficult for someone to change their rooming situation once it is established. I know at my college that is the case. Plus if you consider he may have already been in a depressed state when all this occured, it would have been unlikely he would have been motivated to move from the situaton no matter how bad it was because his emotional state was already low.

    Only he had the power to jump off that bridge. No one pushed him, inadverently or otherwise, off of it. He did that to himself. There is ZERO grounds for holding these kids accountable for anything other than invasion of privacy.
    This is a fault of a libertarian mindset into mental health.The argument that we are always rational decision makers has no grounds in scientific fact. Every single human being makes decisions based on emotion, not rational. It has been demonstrated by psychology time and time again that humans simply use rational to sway their emotions. If someone is put into an emotional state where they are susceptible to suicide, then whoever did so is indeed partially responsible.

    Honestly, if I got you as angry as possible, provided you with a gun and bullets, and left you alone with the object of your anger, do you think I would not be partially responsible if you killed them? I manipulated your emotional state, considerably lowered your ability to be rational, and provided you the means.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-03-10 at 03:38 PM.

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Honestly, if I got you as angry as possible, provided you with a gun and bullets, and left you alone with the object of your anger, do you think I would not be partially responsible if you killed them? I manipulated your emotional state, considerably lowered your ability to be rational, and provided you the means.
    Except they didn't hand him a bridge, which leaves us with the following analogy: "If I got you as angry as possible and then you bought a gun and shot yourself, do you think I would not be partially responsible"?

    I'd say yes, but to a very small degree and certainly not to a level of legal culpability. Even then, it assumes that you intentionally got the other person "as angry as possible."
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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Quick question...

    Being that the room was shared by both of the boys, is it really even an invasion of privacy that he turned on the web cam on his desk in his own room?
    I should think that the live streaming bit is where the invasion comes in.

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Except they didn't hand him a bridge, which leaves us with the following analogy: "If I got you as angry as possible and then you bought a gun and shot yourself, do you think I would not be partially responsible"?
    The question is the means. That is the only reason I"m not 100% sure of whether to hold them partially accountable or not.

    However, they gave him a clear motivation to commit suicide. So they satisfied half the criteria.

    I'd say yes, but to a very small degree and certainly not to a level of legal culpability. Even then, it assumes that you intentionally got the other person "as angry as possible."
    I disagree. I think if you put someone in an emotional state where they are susceptible to lethality and provide the means to hurt themselves or others, then you are partially responsible when they do and should be held legally responsible. I think our bullying problem around this country, both online and off, would quickly come to an end if people were held responsible in that manner.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-03-10 at 03:52 PM.

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I think that the second and third charges will be dropped once the furor dies down
    I don't think the furor is going to die down. This is already beng treated by many gay groups as Matthew Shepard 2.0. We are probably going to be hearing about this for years and years and there is going to be considerable outrage from the gay community if at least Revi doesn't recieve some jail time. The fact that this occurred around the time when 4 other gay youth suicides took place has heated this up to molten proportions.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 10-03-10 at 04:00 PM.

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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The question is the means. That is the only reason I"m not 100% sure of whether to hold them partially accountable or not.

    However, they gave him a clear motivation to commit suicide. So they satisfied half the criteria.
    I don't understand how you think there is a question about the means. They did not build the GWB and hand it to the kid. They did not drive him to the bridge and walk him to the ledge. They had absolutely nothing to do with the means of his suicide.

    I disagree. I think if you put someone in an emotional state where they are susceptible to lethality and provide the means to hurt themselves or others, then you are partially responsible when they do and should be held legally responsible. I think our bullying problem around this country, both online and off, would quickly come to an end if people were held responsible in that manner.
    I think this is a case of overreacting to a situation by arguing for a solution that would have terrible unintended consequences. How do you think this would play out in real life? If a girl cheated on a guy and left him, prompting him to jump off a bridge, should she be charged with manslaughter?
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 10-03-10 at 04:02 PM.
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    Re: Student kills himself after gay sex footage put online

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't think the furor is going to die down. This is already beng treated by many gay groups as Matthew Shepard 2.0.
    I think that's insane and that any groups that make that argument will suffer a massive credibility hit.
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