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Census finds record gap between rich and poor

Moot said:
That's pretty funny considering the rest of us were talking about the widening gap between the rich and the poor until you derailed the thread to talk about taxes.
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Here's the OP:

hazlnut said:
Even if the release of this was timed, it's still relevant to the midterms and taxes.

Now is not the time to give an additional tax break to the wealthy and super-wealthy.
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How on earth did I "derail the thread to talk about taxes" when the OP is about taxes?

So why is the middle class getting poorer and the rich getting richer? I suspect it might have something to do with the systemic dismantling of our manufacturing base that sent millions of jobs overseas and the packing of the SCOTUS with activist judges that have consistently ruled in favor of corporate interests over democracy and individual rights. Never was the later more apparent than in their recent ruling Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission which has allowed the Koch's blatant and obvious attempt to steal the upcoming election. And of course, the banks, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan have entrenched themselves in the government and now literally have this country's economy by the balls. We the people don't stand a chance against this corporate oligarchy...see my sig. Viva la French Revolution, history is about to repeat itself again.
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Okay!
 
Coronado said:
I was being facetious when I posted that. Maybe we'll get some people that aren't to explain why they think successful people stole what they have.
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Yeah, I gathered that after I posted, sorry...
Unless you make a LOT of money, it isn't easy to retire well. But we did, and put 2 kids thru college at our expense.
The wife started working when the youngest started school, and for 8 or so years we saved ALL of her income. Mine was sufficient to live on. We know so many people who spend some percentage OVER what they earn. Some had huge incomes, and are now losing their McMansions to the mortgage company. What you earn is only part of the finanical success equation...
Isn't it interesting, tho, that my kind of success is doubted by so many. I offered a few friends some advice over the years, but they didn't really want it, and now that they are poorly retired, they refer to me as "lucky"....
 
UtahBill said:
again you accuse me of lying....are you really that stupid? When you have rental property and you deduct expenses, they expect you to have receipts, and WE DID, so audit was over in a short time. They were prepared, so were we. It is that simple.
I take it you have been audited and it didn't go well, too bad, too sad. I spent one tax season doing returns for people, and a few of my clients wanted to deduct expenses they couldn't prove.
I don't know what you are doing for a living, but it sounds like you want it all, and right now. It took us 30 years to accumulate our 'wealth'....
How old are you? If you want some financial advice, I can give it. Problem is, most people won't take it. They want to live very well now, and very well later, and it takes a lot of income to do both...
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Audits aren't that simple, sorry.

I have been audited. Did it go well? I had to cut a check for 2 grand on the first one and left with the government owing me about 800 on the second, so it went purdy good, by comparison. The fact is, it didn't take a few minutes.

I'm 41, since you asked.

I don't, "want it all right now", but I want to get it. If it takes another 15 or so years to get it, then fine, but I don't want a buncha bleeding heart Libbos telling me that I can't have it, at all. I was doing purdy good, before the drilling moratorium. I'm going to refocus my efforts toward more land based drilling operations and wait to see how Krewe Obama cocks that up, too.
 
apdst said:
Sounds to me like you're exploiting the system like a mutha'.

I wasn't aware that people could draw SS and retirement pensions. Sounds like bulllllllllllllllllllllllllllll****. That, or you're defrauding the government. Someone probably needs to look into what you're doing.

Ultimately, I see why you support more taxation. So you can make sure your meal ticket keeps coming in.
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No way you are that unaware....well, maybe you are. If you are, you should not be posting in this thread because you don't know jackpoop about the topic.
I have one neighbor who isn't eligible for SS, because he was on civil service retirement plan. You can't do both. He never paid into SS, and that means you can't take anything out. Plus, you need 10 good years. My younger brother only worked 2 years of his life, so he can't draw SS. All he gets is a 50% disability from the Navy, and I think he cheated to get that. He was always able to work, but suffers from terminal laziness.
BUt you can do pensions from your civilian employer, plus social security, plus military if you do 20 years. My wife's teacher retirement is from the state, SS is from the USA.
 
UtahBill said:
No way you are that unaware....well, maybe you are. If you are, you should not be posting in this thread because you don't know jackpoop about the topic.
I have one neighbor who isn't eligible for SS, because he was on civil service retirement plan. You can't do both. He never paid into SS, and that means you can't take anything out. Plus, you need 10 good years. My younger brother only worked 2 years of his life, so he can't draw SS. All he gets is a 50% disability from the Navy, and I think he cheated to get that. He was always able to work, but suffers from terminal laziness.
BUt you can do pensions from your civilian employer, plus social security, plus military if you do 20 years. My wife's teacher retirement is from the state, SS is from the USA.
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lot of nerve telling apdst that he doesn't know about something when you spout out that the "rich" can easily pay massive tax hikes next year.
 
TurtleDude said:
If you were like my late mother, all of her income came from dividends meaning your taxes would go from 15% on your next dollar to 40%
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some around here might start thinking and saying some rotten things about your mom

darn social engineers just have no respect, y'know, for PEOPLE

society is made of individual BRICKS with which to build utopia
 
apdst said:
Audits aren't that simple, sorry.

I have been audited. Did it go well? I had to cut a check for 2 grand on the first one and left with the government owing me about 800 on the second, so it went purdy good, by comparison. The fact is, it didn't take a few minutes.

I'm 41, since you asked.

I don't, "want it all right now", but I want to get it. If it takes another 15 or so years to get it, then fine, but I don't want a buncha bleeding heart Libbos telling me that I can't have it, at all. I was doing purdy good, before the drilling moratorium. I'm going to refocus my efforts toward more land based drilling operations and wait to see how Krewe Obama cocks that up, too.
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You CAN have it all, within existing rules. Too bad you aren't aware of them so you can take advantage of them. Don't expect to do it in 15 years, tho. First thing that you plan on is having your house paid off early so you aren't getting royally screwed by the finance companies. They are the experts, the govt is a distant second.
You have had 2 audits, so have I. Yours took some time, mine didn't. How is that so hard to believe?
Actually, the second one was done by mail. They made an incorrect assumption about the sale of an asset, and I pointed out that I sold it at a loss, not a profit.
And yes, I am happy that we have so many people still employed paying into SS. I get about $1500 per month from them, and some of that comes from YOU....:2razz:
 
TurtleDude said:
lot of nerve telling apdst that he doesn't know about something when you spout out that the "rich" can easily pay massive tax hikes next year.
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Look, sockpuppet, he thinks people can't draw SS and a regular retirement at the same time.
Tell me that isn't a show of ignorance. He has a lot to learn, and so do you.
PRactically all of my friends of retirement age are getting both. It's the law, has been since before I was born, and I am 64....
 
UtahBill said:
You CAN have it all, within existing rules. Too bad you aren't aware of them so you can take advantage of them. Don't expect to do it in 15 years, tho. First thing that you plan on is having your house paid off early so you aren't getting royally screwed by the finance companies. They are the experts, the govt is a distant second.
You have had 2 audits, so have I. Yours took some time, mine didn't. How is that so hard to believe?
Actually, the second one was done by mail. They made an incorrect assumption about the sale of an asset, and I pointed out that I sold it at a loss, not a profit.
And yes, I am happy that we have so many people still employed paying into SS. I get about $1500 per month from them, and some of that comes from YOU....:2razz:
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None of that ****'s going to happen in the current economic environment. And, I'm sure that's by design.

I'm sure you fellow Libbos are impressed as hell that you're double dipping the way you are.
 
TurtleDude said:
lot of nerve telling apdst that he doesn't know about something when you spout out that the "rich" can easily pay massive tax hikes next year.
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Why do bank robbers rob banks? Because that is where the money is. The rich had it easy under Bush Lite, and now those tax cuts are set to expire, by law. Taxes are going back to where they were before GWB, and the "tax hikes" are not massive except in your simple, uneducated mind.
 
VanceMack said:
Some of you still want to make this about poor whiny bitch poor people that didn't prepare themselves for a future having all their money stolen by evil rich people. Id LOVE to hear how that goes. Id love to hear how hard working people lost everything because some rich guy sneaked into their home and stole it from them.

Sorry...no excuses. If you FAIL you FAIL because you are a FAILURE...because you didn't prepare yourself. Blame yourself-go look in the mirror and see who is responsible. Blame your mommy and daddy for not teaching you the value of hard work...but stop pretending ANYONE else is to blame. Its not about tax rates. Its not about pay scales. People fail because they failed to prepare and fail to work hard to undo the damage they themselves caused. They got college degrees in fields with no future. I work with people daily who dug themselves into the fail pit and through hard work...yes...even in today's economy, dug themselves out. Its not easy. Its hard work. They don't do it by doing the same failed things. I also work with many that have have just quit...they whine or complain about how unfair it is. There is no hand up for them because they want the hand out and there are far too many programs there to give it to them.
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Do you really believe the bull you're spouting? Do you honestly believe everyone is predisposed to the same opportunities, that the circumstances of life is relatively identical to everyone? Because if that's the case we're all either going to be very rich, very poor or live moderate "middle-class" lives.

The truth is there are people who either luck into situations that provide them a satisfying life (i.e., they inherit income from family, are born into money, win the lotto, or get discovered in sports and entertainment), develop a bright idea into riches, or work harder than others either through laboring or get a high quality education and use same to further their professional career. Very few people have the wherewithall to know exactly what they want to do in life while they're young and are continuously encouraged to pursue their ambitions.

Furthermore, not everyone has the opportunity to attain wealth. Most people will just have average lives. Most people are afforded an education via the public education system, but that's about as far as many people can afford to go. Even with loans and grants, most high school graduates can't afford to attend college. Most young adults start off in the labor force working a minimum wage job (unless, of course, they luck out and know someone who sees something in them to take a chance and give them an opportunity to better themselves), and if they're lucky or work hard enough they can progress up that economic ladder.

And then there are those who just can't catch a break with a net! Circumstances befall them and they can never get out of that revolving door of dispair and poverty. Sometimes, they bring things upon themselves; other times things happen beyond their control (i.e., a devastating accident or lost of the primary bread-winner).

To think that everyone will be exposed to the same or similar opportunities to attain wealth is just foolish. Most people want to do for themselves as opposed to just having things handed to them. Moreover, I seriously doubt people want to be poor. Unfortunately, they either don't know what to do to change the circumstances of their lives in a meaningful way or the opportunities just never come their way.
 
UtahBill said:
Look, sockpuppet, he thinks people can't draw SS and a regular retirement at the same time.
Tell me that isn't a show of ignorance. He has a lot to learn, and so do you.
PRactically all of my friends of retirement age are getting both. It's the law, has been since before I was born, and I am 64....
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sockpuppet

getting a bit testy there

you think others ought to pay more because they can

you obviously can pay alot more too so put up or STFU
 
Objective Voice said:
Do you really believe the bull you're spouting? Do you honestly believe everyone is predisposed to the same opportunities, that the circumstances of life is relatively identical to everyone? Because if that's the case we're all either going to be very rich, very poor or live moderate "middle-class" lives.

The truth is there are people who either luck into situations that provide them a satisfying life (i.e., they inherit income from family, are born into money, win the lotto, or get discovered in sports and entertainment), develop a bright idea into riches, or work harder than others either through laboring or get a high quality education and use same to further their professional career. Very few people have the wherewithall to know exactly what they want to do in life while they're young and are continuously encouraged to pursue their ambitions.

Furthermore, not everyone has the opportunity to attain wealth. Most people will just have average lives. Most people are afforded an education via the public education system, but that's about as far as many people can afford to go. Even with loans and grants, most high school graduates can't afford to attend college. Most young adults start off in the labor force working a minimum wage job (unless, of course, they luck out and know someone who sees something in them to take a chance and give them an opportunity to better themselves), and if they're lucky or work hard enough they can progress up that economic ladder.

And then there are those who just can't catch a break with a net! Circumstances befall them and they can never get out of that revolving door of dispair and poverty. Sometimes, they bring things upon themselves; other times things happen beyond their control (i.e., a devastating accident or lost of the primary bread-winner).

To think that everyone will be exposed to the same or similar opportunities to attain wealth is just foolish. Most people want to do for themselves as opposed to just having things handed to them. Moreover, I seriously doubt people want to be poor. Unfortunately, they either don't know what to do to change the circumstances of their lives in a meaningful way or the opportunities just never come their way.
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some is rich, some is poor
that's the way the world is
but I don't believe in laying back and
saying how bad your luck is

Joe Strummer
 
apdst said:
None of that ****'s going to happen in the current economic environment. And, I'm sure that's by design.

I'm sure you fellow Libbos are impressed as hell that you're double dipping the way you are.
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Maybe I have it wrong, maybe YOU are the sockpuppet. And I am not double dipping, I am quadruple dipping. 2 civilian jobs, SS, and military.
And you are eligible for the same, if you want to make the same effort I did.
None of those rules/laws by which I draw so much retirement have been repealed.
Funny, you and your roomie TD know so little about the system but have so much to say. You probably listen to Rush Bin Limbaugh and Glenn Beckerhead.
As for being a libbo, I did vote for Carter, and unless the GOP presents a viable candidate, for a change, I MAY vote for Obama in
2012...
Other than that, I always voted republican. For that, I beg forgiveness from the gods. After 4 years of Bush Lite, I knew better to vote for him again, but the DIMS just couldn't put up a good candidate.
Democrats may tax and spend, but that is preferred to borrow and spend like the GOP. Now,tho, both parties do both. Hardly any difference anymore.
 
TurtleDude said:
sockpuppet

getting a bit testy there

you think others ought to pay more because they can

you obviously can pay alot more too so put up or STFU
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I have paid a lot. Year before last we had income enough to get into the top tax bracket. Writing those checks was painful....
So YOU can STFU, stop your whining, be grateful you have a good job, and pay your taxes.....like a good little girl...:2razz:
 
Objective Voice said:
Do you really believe the bull you're spouting? Do you honestly believe everyone is predisposed to the same opportunities, that the circumstances of life is relatively identical to everyone? Because if that's the case we're all either going to be very rich, very poor or live moderate "middle-class" lives.

The truth is there are people who either luck into situations that provide them a satisfying life (i.e., they inherit income from family, are born into money, win the lotto, or get discovered in sports and entertainment), develop a bright idea into riches, or work harder than others either through laboring or get a high quality education and use same to further their professional career. Very few people have the wherewithall to know exactly what they want to do in life while they're young and are continuously encouraged to pursue their ambitions.

Furthermore, not everyone has the opportunity to attain wealth. Most people will just have average lives. Most people are afforded an education via the public education system, but that's about as far as many people can afford to go. Even with loans and grants, most high school graduates can't afford to attend college. Most young adults start off in the labor force working a minimum wage job (unless, of course, they luck out and know someone who sees something in them to take a chance and give them an opportunity to better themselves), and if they're lucky or work hard enough they can progress up that economic ladder.

And then there are those who just can't catch a break with a net! Circumstances befall them and they can never get out of that revolving door of dispair and poverty. Sometimes, they bring things upon themselves; other times things happen beyond their control (i.e., a devastating accident or lost of the primary bread-winner).

To think that everyone will be exposed to the same or similar opportunities to attain wealth is just foolish. Most people want to do for themselves as opposed to just having things handed to them. Moreover, I seriously doubt people want to be poor. Unfortunately, they either don't know what to do to change the circumstances of their lives in a meaningful way or the opportunities just never come their way.
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I said nothing about everyone being born with the same opportunities. Point of fact many spoiled rich kids die from suicide because they also FAILED. They end up in rehab because rich mommy and daddy pampered them and then the real world kicked them right square in the mouth. Birth into a rich home is no predictor of success. Hard work is.

Im the first person in my family to graduate from high school. My father went through wives like babysitters. I never knew my mother. I went through multiple instances of abuse. Education was never stressed nor emphasized. I bounced around from home to home most of my early years. I wasnt what you would call primed for success. I vowed my family wouldnt go through that. I vowed my kids wouldnt. I worked my ass off 2 and 3 jobs AND went to school. I sat in night and weekend classes with others committed to changing their futures.

Do I believe it? Hell yes. I lived it and I see others living it daily.

You fail...blame yourself. Period. Quit whining and bitching about how unfair life is and CHANGE YOURS...stop being so damn pathetic and envious of others.
 
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UtahBill said:
Maybe I have it wrong, maybe YOU are the sockpuppet. And I am not double dipping, I am quadruple dipping. 2 civilian jobs, SS, and military.
And you are eligible for the same, if you want to make the same effort I did.
None of those rules/laws by which I draw so much retirement have been repealed.
Funny, you and your roomie TD know so little about the system but have so much to say. You probably listen to Rush Bin Limbaugh and Glenn Beckerhead.
As for being a libbo, I did vote for Carter, and unless the GOP presents a viable candidate, for a change, I MAY vote for Obama in
2012...
Other than that, I always voted republican. For that, I beg forgiveness from the gods. After 4 years of Bush Lite, I knew better to vote for him again, but the DIMS just couldn't put up a good candidate.
Democrats may tax and spend, but that is preferred to borrow and spend like the GOP. Now,tho, both parties do both. Hardly any difference anymore.
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The Libbos are really going to hate your ass.
 
justabubba said:
how dare he not boost the national deficit so that tax breaks can be given to billionaires [/s]
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You assume somehow he ISNT boosting the annual deficit? You assume he would be somehow fiscally responsible if he could just take MORE of other peoples income?
 
RightinNYC said:
Here's the OP:



How on earth did I "derail the thread to talk about taxes" when the OP is about taxes?
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Clearly this was the doing of those dastardly Koch brothers.
 
UtahBill said:
I have paid a lot. Year before last we had income enough to get into the top tax bracket. Writing those checks was painful....
So YOU can STFU, stop your whining, be grateful you have a good job, and pay your taxes.....like a good little girl...:2razz:
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LOL-6-1, 230, I'd make one butt ugly little girl. Might pass for a soviet lady shotputter circa 1975 though-except they probably were better hung than most of the guys on this board:mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL-6-1, 230, I'd make one butt ugly little girl. Might pass for a soviet lady shotputter circa 1975 though-except they probably were better hung than most of the guys on this board:mrgreen::mrgreen:
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You are starting to sound like my sister....she was 2 years older than me and didn't hesitate to smack me around, then when I hit her back, I got into trouble for "hitting a girl". Is your name Berta?:2razz:
 
UtahBill said:
You are starting to sound like my sister....she was 2 years older than me and didn't hesitate to smack me around, then when I hit her back, I got into trouble for "hitting a girl". Is your name Berta?:2razz:
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No, its GUIDO.
 
Moderator's Warning:
OK. A few of you have already been infracted. The personal attacks cease NOW. The next one will earn the poster a nice trip to infractionville AND thread bantown.
 
Objective Voice said:
Do you really believe the bull you're spouting? Do you honestly believe everyone is predisposed to the same opportunities, that the circumstances of life is relatively identical to everyone? Because if that's the case we're all either going to be very rich, very poor or live moderate "middle-class" lives.

The truth is there are people who either luck into situations that provide them a satisfying life (i.e., they inherit income from family, are born into money, win the lotto, or get discovered in sports and entertainment), develop a bright idea into riches, or work harder than others either through laboring or get a high quality education and use same to further their professional career. Very few people have the wherewithall to know exactly what they want to do in life while they're young and are continuously encouraged to pursue their ambitions.

Furthermore, not everyone has the opportunity to attain wealth. Most people will just have average lives. Most people are afforded an education via the public education system, but that's about as far as many people can afford to go. Even with loans and grants, most high school graduates can't afford to attend college. Most young adults start off in the labor force working a minimum wage job (unless, of course, they luck out and know someone who sees something in them to take a chance and give them an opportunity to better themselves), and if they're lucky or work hard enough they can progress up that economic ladder.

And then there are those who just can't catch a break with a net! Circumstances befall them and they can never get out of that revolving door of dispair and poverty. Sometimes, they bring things upon themselves; other times things happen beyond their control (i.e., a devastating accident or lost of the primary bread-winner).

To think that everyone will be exposed to the same or similar opportunities to attain wealth is just foolish. Most people want to do for themselves as opposed to just having things handed to them. Moreover, I seriously doubt people want to be poor. Unfortunately, they either don't know what to do to change the circumstances of their lives in a meaningful way or the opportunities just never come their way.
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I and 5 siblings were born into a poor, dysfunctional family. 2 of us came out of it well off after many decades of working at it, 2 more are doing OK, the other 2 are poor. The last 2 had trouble learning to read, couldn't handle fractions, failed 3rd grade, ended up quitting school. Those 2 had handicaps, but the biggest one was our parents. They gave us no motivation, just fed us and clothed us and told us to plan on being gone by age 18.
BUT, I have known people from worse situations....and they did OK. And I have known smart people who were just too lazy to try.
I do think we make it too easy to fail, and too easy to live well with little or no effort.
Several European countries right now are going thru austerity programs to help undo years of "life too easy". They are complaining bitterly and protesting in large numbers.
None of us should be thinking it can't happen here....
 
Objective Voice said:
Do you really believe the bull you're spouting? Do you honestly believe everyone is predisposed to the same opportunities, that the circumstances of life is relatively identical to everyone? Because if that's the case we're all either going to be very rich, very poor or live moderate "middle-class" lives.

The truth is there are people who either luck into situations that provide them a satisfying life (i.e., they inherit income from family, are born into money, win the lotto, or get discovered in sports and entertainment), develop a bright idea into riches, or work harder than others either through laboring or get a high quality education and use same to further their professional career. Very few people have the wherewithall to know exactly what they want to do in life while they're young and are continuously encouraged to pursue their ambitions.

Furthermore, not everyone has the opportunity to attain wealth. Most people will just have average lives. Most people are afforded an education via the public education system, but that's about as far as many people can afford to go. Even with loans and grants, most high school graduates can't afford to attend college. Most young adults start off in the labor force working a minimum wage job (unless, of course, they luck out and know someone who sees something in them to take a chance and give them an opportunity to better themselves), and if they're lucky or work hard enough they can progress up that economic ladder.

And then there are those who just can't catch a break with a net! Circumstances befall them and they can never get out of that revolving door of dispair and poverty. Sometimes, they bring things upon themselves; other times things happen beyond their control (i.e., a devastating accident or lost of the primary bread-winner).

To think that everyone will be exposed to the same or similar opportunities to attain wealth is just foolish. Most people want to do for themselves as opposed to just having things handed to them. Moreover, I seriously doubt people want to be poor. Unfortunately, they either don't know what to do to change the circumstances of their lives in a meaningful way or the opportunities just never come their way.
Click to expand...

Those with the ability have the oppurtunity. Unless, of course, the government over-regulates that oppurtunity out of existance.
 
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