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Census finds record gap between rich and poor

Boo Radley said:
Can you demonstrate objectively (not subjectively) that the government is what is killing the middle class?
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Sure. Higher taxes. Fewer jobs. Those conditions are murdering the middle class.
 
Goobieman said:
This is absurd on its face, ans the poor, by definition, have nothing to steal.
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So you don't think a man's labor is worth anything? Have you ever heard of slavery? Stealing another man's labor is by definition slavery.
 
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Moot said:
So you don't think a man's labor is worth anything? Have you ever heard of slavery? Stealing another man's labor is by definition slavery.
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and some of the rich don't mind stealing labor....if we are to believe some who post here, lower taxes on the rich is the only way to grow jobs. That is simple minded thinking. The rich get lower taxes, and offer lower wages to the desperate, and then feel like they have done a good thing.
Altho I totally agree that many have not prepared for their future and deserve their situation, I also have seen upper management screw technicians and engineers out of fair wages so there would be more money left in the "basket" for themselves.
Twice the place I last worked did that. Hired a bunch of engineers one time, a bunch of techs later on. When the new hires found out how lowly they had been hired compared to lazy non-producers already in the group, there was a lot of friction. management had to boost wages a lot all at once, or lose the new hires....
 
Moot said:
So you don't think a man's labor is worth anything? Have you ever heard of slavery? Stealing another man's labor is by definition slavery.
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Without mentioning the Koch brothers, Glenn Beck, or the tea party, please explain how people are "stealing labor" or otherwise forcing people into slavery by virtue of being high earners.
 
Goobieman said:
This is absurd on its face, ans the poor, by definition, have nothing to steal.
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They steal sweat equity. In other words, they steal time and effort. You can pay the poor dirt cheap to work for you and because they are poor they will take work where they can get it at whatever wage they can get it.

The wealthy make a lot of money off the sweat equity of the working poor. And it is sweat equity that ultimately matters, because no matter how much capital you have, if you don't have sweat equity you have no production.

And of course the wealthy will do everything in their power to maintain the gap between rich and poor, because then they can pay lower wages and make more money off the sweat equity of the poor. It benefits them immensely to do so.
 
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CriticalThought said:
They steal sweat equity. In other words, they steal time and effort. You can pay the poor dirt cheap to work for you and because they are poor they will take work where they can get it at whatever wage they can get it.

The wealthy make a lot of money off the sweat equity of the working poor. And it is sweat equity that ultimately matters, because no matter how much capital you have, if you don't have sweat equity you have no production.
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Can you explain, in detail, how high earners "force" people to work at low wages?
 
RightinNYC said:
Can you explain, in detail, how high earners "force" people to work at low wages?
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Easily.

By maintaining the gap between rich and poor, the wealthy of the country control the wages. The more poor people there are in the country, the more people there will be to work a lower wage, and thus the wage will remain low.

In order to maintain the gap between rich and poor, the wealthy of the country seek fiscal policies that benefit them. For example, tax cuts for top earners, corporate welfare/bailouts, and defense contracts.

And of course, they spread the nonsense that "tax cuts for the rich equals jobs for the poor". Not because it isn't true. More jobs are created, they are just low wage jobs which create more working poor and perpetuate the cycle of increasing and maintaining the gap between rich and poor.
 
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apdst said:
Redistribution of wealth, is also when the government punishes success, so they can provide welfare checks for people who are too damned lazy to get out and get a job.
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There is redistribution of wealth going on, just not the direction you think it is. The wealthy used to hire Americans, but nowadays they are sending the jobs to China, India, etc. And the government gives them tax breaks for doing so. Blame the Republicans and a hand full of Democrats. Absolutely disgusting. Ole Sam Walton used to advertise "Made in America" no more.:(
 
hazlnut said:
Census finds record gap between rich and poor



Even if the release of this was timed, it's still relevant to the midterms and taxes.

Now is not the time to give an additional tax break to the wealthy and super-wealthy.
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Well - with record unemployment of course the gap grew :shrug:
Kind of a pointless no brainer realization, there.

I guess this proves that without one being employed

They don't earn as much money as they use to.

Stunning.
 
CriticalThought said:
Easily.

By maintaining the gap between rich and poor, the wealthy of the country control the wages. The more poor people there are in the country, the more people there will be to work a lower wage, and thus the wage will remain low.

In order to maintain the gap between rich and poor, the wealthy of the country seek fiscal policies that benefit them. For example, tax cuts for top earners, corporate welfare/bailouts, and defense contracts.

And of course, they spread the nonsense that "tax cuts for the rich equals jobs for the poor". Not because it isn't true. More jobs are created, they are just low wage jobs which create more working poor and perpetuate the cycle of increasing and maintaining the gap between rich and poor.
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Not one word of this does anything to explain how the policies that you describe as benefiting the rich serve to force the poor to take jobs paying low wages. Again, if you can, use specifics to explain how maintaining current tax rates on incomes over $250k forces Joe Smith to work at McDonalds.
 
Moot said:
So you don't think a man's labor is worth anything? Have you ever heard of slavery? Stealing another man's labor is by definition slavery.
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If a business operator can't make a profit--profit enough to make a living--is hendered by tax hikes, then by your definition, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, could be slavery.
 
get an education and market yourself, make yourself valuable

of course, simply being a decent person, hardworking, unselfish, knowing when to keep your mouth shut, respecting the people and institutions at your place of employment that predate your precious appearance, exercising patience and restraint, showing a little class, listening more than talking, talking about others not yourself and doing so with sympathy---these and hundreds of other traits of hi character help, they are very important

quit whining and looking for handouts, quit making excuses and playing the victim

your classiest neighbors are too fine to tell you, but i'm not---you're about to make the majority of honest americans puke

the party's over
 
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UtahBill said:
and some of the rich don't mind stealing labor....if we are to believe some who post here, lower taxes on the rich is the only way to grow jobs. That is simple minded thinking. The rich get lower taxes, and offer lower wages to the desperate, and then feel like they have done a good thing.
Altho I totally agree that many have not prepared for their future and deserve their situation, I also have seen upper management screw technicians and engineers out of fair wages so there would be more money left in the "basket" for themselves.
Twice the place I last worked did that. Hired a bunch of engineers one time, a bunch of techs later on. When the new hires found out how lowly they had been hired compared to lazy non-producers already in the group, there was a lot of friction. management had to boost wages a lot all at once, or lose the new hires....
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Just like labor doesn't mind stealing money from the business operator. I've seen many's-a-worker screw, "the boss man", out of some wages. Let's don't pretend it don't happen.
 
FORTY SEVEN in pelosi's temporary palace have now SIGNED on for TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH

in times like these

Dem letter: Keep tax cuts for rich - John Maggs - POLITICO.com

do you really think bobby bright in montgomery and glenn nye in norfolk are gonna betray their stated principles just cuz it's a lame duck, just cuz they've been voted out

look where this clueless leadership has delivered us---after all it's done, it never quite got around to every american's irs bill starting in jan 1

it's a disgrace

leadership has dearly earned what's coming to it

seeya at the polls
 
Moot said:
So you don't think a man's labor is worth anything? Have you ever heard of slavery? Stealing another man's labor is by definition slavery.
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if you agree to work for 10 bucks an hour that is your right. no one is forcing you to work for the wages you get

if you are not worth 10 bucks an hour how is it stealing to pay you 9?
 
apdst said:
Just like labor doesn't mind stealing money from the business operator. I've seen many's-a-worker screw, "the boss man", out of some wages. Let's don't pretend it don't happen.
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I spend a fair amount of my time in labor related areas. AFSCME or some of the other public sector unions are the pits when it comes to a fair wage for a fair days work
 
TurtleDude said:
screwing the wealthy won't change this. It might make you feel better though since you seethe in class envy apparently
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People who keep bringing up "class envy" are the ones most likely to be lacking in class....
I don't know anybody wanting the headaches of being truly rich. The few I know worry about keeping their employees on the payroll. One in particular saw the recession coming, and he had to cut overtime. He didn't have to fire anybody. They aren't making as much but they are getting to keep their jobs and benefits. When good times return, the overtime returns.
He could have used the recession as an excuse to cut wages, but he has too much class for that....
 
a party in open revolt---MORE THAN 100 HOUSE DEMS balk at backing michelle's food safety bill

Michelle Obama in food fight with House - Abby Phillip and Carol E. Lee - POLITICO.com

because michelle's food safety comes---like the teacher aid package which the nyt reported last week was being used to shore up bankrupt pensions instead of the HIRING that was promised---at the cost of CUTTING FOOD STAMPS

they don't know what they're doing

but stephen colbert does

are you going to his and stewart's beckian rally?

have fun, WE'RE going to the polls
 
UtahBill said:
People who keep bringing up "class envy" are the ones most likely to be lacking in class....
I don't know anybody wanting the headaches of being truly rich. The few I know worry about keeping their employees on the payroll. One in particular saw the recession coming, and he had to cut overtime. He didn't have to fire anybody. They aren't making as much but they are getting to keep their jobs and benefits. When good times return, the overtime returns.
He could have used the recession as an excuse to cut wages, but he has too much class for that....
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I guess you turn a blind eye to all the parasite types on these boards who whine about the rich. and I note that the obama administration loves talking about the uber wealthy while targeting people who make 200K-1 million a year (people who are well off but hardly robber-barons) with tax hikes

the tax hikes actually help solidify the status of the uber wealthy
 
TurtleDude said:
I note that the obama administration loves talking about the uber wealthy while targeting people who make 200K-1 million a year (people who are well off but hardly robber-barons) with tax hikes
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I agree with you there, that's pretty messed up. We could pay off the national debt in its entirety if we slapped huge taxes the top .01%, and they'd still be the richest people in the country. What we need is to close the loopholes that allow such absurd amounts of wealth to collect is such a small number of people. It's unfortunate that people making 250K a year and supporting families get thrown under the bus, but it just goes to show the hypocrisy of the Democrats. But then again I can't imagine it would be better under Republicans.
 
UtahBill said:
People who keep bringing up "class envy" are the ones most likely to be lacking in class....
I don't know anybody wanting the headaches of being truly rich. The few I know worry about keeping their employees on the payroll. One in particular saw the recession coming, and he had to cut overtime. He didn't have to fire anybody. They aren't making as much but they are getting to keep their jobs and benefits. When good times return, the overtime returns.
He could have used the recession as an excuse to cut wages, but he has too much class for that....
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If overtime was cut, then wages were cut.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I agree with you there, that's pretty messed up. We could pay off the national debt in its entirety if we slapped huge taxes the top .01%, and they'd still be the richest people in the country. What we need is to close the loopholes that allow such absurd amounts of wealth to collect is such a small number of people. It's unfortunate that people making 250K a year and supporting families get thrown under the bus, but it just goes to show the hypocrisy of the Democrats. But then again I can't imagine it would be better under Republicans.
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lots of people don't realize that while someone like Buffett can manipulate his compensation or even influence markets, the vast majority of the "rich" are people with high paying jobs or investments in companies they don't control or own small businesses. Yet these people are lumped into the same group as TEd Turner, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates or Donald Trump when it comes to tax rates

and since most of the rich don't have the sort of control Buffett does they cannot avoid paying the 50% or more taxes on the next dollar they earn
 
These cities aren't giving in to America's high school dropout crisis -

30% of american youth DROP OUT of hi school

provided by their communities, their families, friends, neighbors, even themselves with 100,000 dollars of taxpayer provided education, they fail to avail

how many of em are forced to abridge mr anson's algebra class cuz they gotta stay home to care for diabetic gramma

how many, in your experience, of these 15 year olds play permanent hooky so as to be able to KICK IT with their homies, instead

in chicago the DROP OUT rate is 50%

which makes obnoxious obama's elevation of the windy city schools chief, arne duncan, to cabinet level ed secty all the odder

not to mention the WAVE OF VIOLENCE that sees big shouldered public school youths murdered by other school youths, almost one a week

google it, i dare you---wave of violence, chicago public schools (cnn and usa today do a story every couple months)

are these the entitlement class you're attempting to represent here on this thread?

get real
 
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Kinda looks like the CBO is weighing in on the bush tax cuts.




<A permanent extension of Bush-era tax cuts would provide a temporary boost to the U.S. economy and then become a drag on growth by pushing up interest rates, the head of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said. >

<Over the long term, he said, the tax cuts would hurt the economy because the government would have to borrow so much money to finance them that it would begin competing with private companies seeking loans. That, in turn, would drive up interest rates, >



CBO Chief Says Tax Cut Extension Would Hurt Economy - Bloomberg
 
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