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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    The government creates a lot of millionaires. Look at my city-and this goes around the whole nation-my mayor gives construction jobs to her friends. Who then charge the city a large amount for the job being done even though it would not cost that by any other construction company. Then the mayor gets bribes from the job done and her friends all end up being rich.
    Thus the problem, govt. corruption, yet there are those here that continue to blame private industry for corruption. People have a choice where to spend their money with private business. Try doing that with your federal, state, or local taxes. I have no respect for public sector corruption and choose not to support private sector companies that engage in corruption.

    All this class envy is a waste of time when the focus should be on the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars. Instead of focusing on increasing govt. revenue why aren't more people focused on where the money is spent and eliminating the waste, fraud, abuse, and govt. dependence?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    I would suggest that you go back and read the threads that I was responding to. Starting at #838, then it might sink in. Then again,perhaps it won’t.
    While we're making suggestions, I would suggest you go back and read...

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ....most consumption tax proposals exempt necessities...

    ...and then do a little research on sales taxes. Groceries are non-taxable items, and I'm pretty sure that includes a $2 loaf of bread.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    While we're making suggestions, I would suggest you go back and read...




    ...and then do a little research on sales taxes. Groceries are non-taxable items, and I'm pretty sure that includes a $2 loaf of bread.
    Wonder what motivates individuals to support a policy of higher targeted tax increases and the socialist agenda. Do these people really understand what is headed this direction? Maybe this will help but somehow I doubt it.

    Current European tax rates:

    United Kingdom
    Income Tax: 50% VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

    France
    Income Tax: 40% VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

    Greece
    Income Tax: 40% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

    Spain
    Income Tax: 45% VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

    Portugal
    Income Tax: 42% VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

    Sweden
    Income Tax: 55% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

    Norway
    Income Tax: 54.3% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

    Netherlands
    Income Tax: 52% VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

    Denmark
    Income Tax: 58% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

    Finland
    Income Tax: 53% VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%

  4. #854
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That do what? Not following you.
    Is welfare a socialist program? What about minimum wage? How about municipal ownership of water companies?

    Wall Street ran riot, enthusing that the boom would never end and that share prices would never fall. Levels of debt, leverage and of so-called margin trading (buying shares with borrowed money) rose to astonishing levels - fuelling yet more demand and more confidence. But, partly because recession-hit Europe could not pay its international bills with the gold that was the anchor of the financial system and partly because the banks were overstretched, suddenly optimism turned to wariness - and then panic. Stocks were sold; depositors hoarded their cash; and banks toppled in the United States and Europe like ninepins.
    Because interest rates were manipulated by the government.

    This was the father and mother of credit crunches. The US fell into depression - and Europe was not immune. Britain left the gold standard and launched the imperial preference system of tariffs for countries in the British empire.
    Britain was not on the gold standard during the 1920s.

    What Has Government Done to Our Money? The Gold Exchange Standard (Britain and the U.S.) 1926-1931 - - Mises Institute

    A short history of capitalism's rise and fall | Business | The Observer

    And so — here is the part libertarians will hate — markets, entirely of their own accord, will sometimes capsize and be unable to right themselves completely for years at a stretch. (See: Japan, “lost decade” of.) Nor can monetary policy be counted on to counteract markets’ tippy tendencies, as so many economists had come to believe.
    The Lost Decade occurred because of government interventions!

    Alas, economists and policy makers got cocksure. They thought they had consigned depressions to history. As a result, they missed warning signs and failed to prepare for the worst. “We are learning,” Posner writes, “that we need a more active and intelligent government to keep our model of a capitalist economy from running off the rails.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/bo...w/Rauch-t.html
    We've had the best and the brightest since FDR. The big news: it hasn't done any good. Fiscal and monetary policies have done nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Romer
    These comparisons show essentially no decline in the severity of cycles between the prewar and postwar eras. They also show little change in the duration and frequency of cycles over time. Thus, much of our apparent success at eliminating the business cycle seems to be a figment of the data.
    Business Cycles, by Christina D. Romer: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

    I still recommend you get a good history book.
    And I recommend you get off your high horse.

    In partisan fanasty land.
    Democrats believe it, and Republicans believe it. Capitalism, they say, has flaws, and would do better with a top-heavy system that treats people more fairly. It's why you won't hear any Republicans say anything bad about free roads or social security and other things.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Are you saying that private individuals and businesses behave more selfishly than politicians?
    No, but Macro Economics is very different than talking about a Tax policy. While a Tax policy can effect the economy of a country Macro Economics is more broad and deals with things like GDP and growth.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well most consumption tax proposals exempt necessities
    See thats the rub. You let peole start making exemptions and you end up where we are today.

    Who decides what the exemptions are? Please dont say Washington.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    While we're making suggestions, I would suggest you go back and read...




    ...and then do a little research on sales taxes. Groceries are non-taxable items, and I'm pretty sure that includes a $2 loaf of bread.
    If you say so but I cant find that at this site, which I think is the biggest far/flat tax going.Perhaps you can find it for me?

    Like I told TurtleDude, I think that this is worth looking into but it will take some tinkering and fine tuning.

    Americans For Fair Taxation:
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    If you say so but I cant find that at this site, which I think is the biggest far/flat tax going.Perhaps you can find it for me?

    Like I told TurtleDude, I think that this is worth looking into but it will take some tinkering and fine tuning.

    Americans For Fair Taxation:
    After looking at your link, this particular proposal does not exempt groceries. Rather, they have a monthly tax rebate:

    "The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes."

    Personally, I think it would be better to have non-taxable items than have a "prebate", but it's the same principle and either way, you're incorrect to say that this would increase taxes on lower income people.
    Last edited by FederalRepublic; 10-25-10 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Can't spell...

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    No, but Macro Economics is very different than talking about a Tax policy. While a Tax policy can effect the economy of a country Macro Economics is more broad and deals with things like GDP and growth.
    ....and now to the meat of the discussion. Macro economics, GDP and growth. You are the one who described it: "...in a free trade system, then things will try to balance out. Jobs and income will flow from the wealthy...to the less wealthy..." That describes, exactly, trickle down economics. You call it macro economics, which I think is more accurate. It's the way things work in a free market. Sure, we have to temper it with some sort of rules, but more does not necessarily equal better when it comes to rules. You also point that out for me:

    "See thats the rub. You let peole start making exemptions and you end up where we are today."

    I can pretty much make my entire argument against you in your words. It's like you have a devil (someone like Boo) and an angel (someone like me) sitting on either shoulder and you take turns with them posting their thoughts. It's very strange, but comes in handy for me in a forum like this.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    After looking at your link, this particular proposal does not exempt groceries. Rather, they have a monthly tax rebate:

    "The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes."

    Personally, I think it would be better to have non-taxable items than have a "prebate", but it's the same principle and either way, you're incorrect to say that this would increase taxes on lower income people.
    I did not say <that would increase taxes on lower income people.>

    i did say that <fair tax” that is being touted, is anything but fair>though.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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