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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    Yes, that one.
    good movie

    the boxing was about as realistic as the gun fighting in John Wayne Westerns



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    LOL. Your using the years when President Clinton was in office to support your cause. I LOVE that.

    I used information from the 2009 Government Census.

    http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    Its not a personal attack. Im being serious. If you say something that radical then your other statements come into judgement.
    It is a personal attack because you're attacking the person who made the argument and not the actual argument. That's the definition of a personal attack.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    LOL. Your using the years when President Clinton was in office to support your cause. I LOVE that.

    I used information from the 2009 Government Census.

    http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf
    I don't mind using data from Clinton's presidency. I'm not a Republican supporter. Realize that you're dealing with someone who hates Republicans and Democrats.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we are dealing with an interesting strain of libertarianism I suspect.

    income redistributive libertarian.

    sort of like Christ isn't divine Roman Catholicism?
    Not at all. I just disagree with the current system and the beleif that its fair or unfair. My desire is for a smaller government. Then we would not fight as much about where it came from.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't mind using data from Clinton's presidency. I'm not a Republican supporter. Realize that you're dealing with someone who hates Republicans and Democrats.
    I 100% agree with that. I just dont agree that the system is working or that the middle class is growing and prospering.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    I 100% agree with that. I just dont agree that the system is working or that the middle class is growing and prospering.
    I don't like corporatism, but I think that our capitalist elements are beating out the regression that full corporatism would bring.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It is a personal attack because you're attacking the person who made the argument and not the actual argument. That's the definition of a personal attack.
    I am not attacking his character, I am saying that his statements call into good question his mental state. If I made a statment like "The color red is alive and eats the brains of children" you would think about that statement even when I talk about things not red or involving children.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't like corporatism, but I think that our capitalist elements are beating out the regression that full corporatism would bring.
    I agree with the corporatism part. I would prefer to have that seperation of Coporate America and the state.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But it does, as I've shown in many links already! Here they are again!

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...post1058996184

    Sowell on Economic Facts and Fallacies | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty

    You still have refused to directly contradict these links.



    How in the world do you figure?! That's no problem, that's progress!



    Except when you look at good quintiles then the middle class isn't shrinking. In fact, they are just becoming richer!

    Explain this data:

    Overall $93,100 per household (+31%)
    Top income quartile $422,400 per household (+97%)
    Second income quartile $124,500 per household (+71%)
    Third income quartile $44,740 per household (0%)
    Bottom income quartile $9,960 per household (+5%)

    It seems obvious then to me that if you use static definitions of the middle class instead of looking at the actual middle class (from 75th percentile to 25th percentile) that of course you will see a shrinking middle class! It's MEDIAN INCOME HAS BEEN RISING WITH TIME!

    As for this data, realize that although the third income has remained stagnant, that these are not the same people in that group.

    To point out how significant this is, think about college students who make little money while in school (so classified as poor) but then get a job later and make a ton of money. Would you say that they were in poor while in school? Of course not! They took out loans banking on future success. They were never poor. They were not rich, but not poor.
    No, it really doesn't. That's why your information didn't convince. And no, some are becoming richer, as the wealthier class is growing. no one's really disoputing that. And some are getting poorer. What is vanishing is the middle. That is the problem.

    I also see above someone questioned Sowell. I told you I have read him before. He tends to let ideaology color his analysis. This tends to make him have different conclusions than others make. I have avoided mentioning this and simply tried to show you that what he claims isn't so, and by giving you a variety of sources showing the same thing. I suspect this won't convince you. Whether you suffer from the same problem as Sowell, I can't say. But the problenm you suuggest doesn't equal the conclusion you've drawn. More rich and more poor, and less middle means there is a gap between rich and poor.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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