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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Okay, so let me get this straight, the arguement was that, "it's impossible to say with any certainty that one country just is better than the other." But, "many other countries have done far better than we have in some respects" and then you said, "we are horrific when it comes to our tax code. Seriously, we're one of the worst countries in the world. in that regard." I fail to see what our tax code has to do with the premise that we are doing any better or worse than other countries, especially considering we still pay less taxes than most other countries and for the taxes we do pay, we don't get our money's worth. In short, the tax code, "the code that tells people how to pay taxes" has absolutely nothing to do with how better or worse off a country is. That would be like saying it's directions on the package that determines how good the product is instead of the materials or the cost of the product.
    A complex tax code lends itself to a lot of control by government of the citizens of the country, since you can manipulate behavior through it.


    You don't earn income distributions in the same way you earn a wage. One involves the exchange of labor, the other simply involves the exchange of money. You've heard the old adage, You have to have money, to make money. "Making money" from dividends is not the same as "earning money" from doing a full day of labor.
    Then why do corporations pay shareholders for their investment?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A complex tax code lends itself to a lot of control by government of the citizens of the country, since you can manipulate behavior through it.
    So are you saying the tax code is more important than the tax revenue to determine whether a country is better or worse off than another?




    Then why do corporations pay shareholders for their investment?
    To DISTRIBUTE wealth, of course.
    Last edited by Moot; 10-20-10 at 12:05 AM.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So are you saying the tax code is more important than the tax revenue to determine whether a country is better or worse off than another?




    To DISTRIBUTE wealth, of course.
    and that is good



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I can see you ignored my post then. Let me show it to you again.
    Didn't ignore. It didn't convince or prove anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So are you saying the tax code is more important than the tax revenue to determine whether a country is better or worse off than another?
    I'm saying that the tax code is an unnecessary burden and benefits those who know how to work it plus it tries to affect our behavior what with child tax credits and charitable deductions.


    To DISTRIBUTE wealth, of course.
    Why would they want to "distribute" their wealth to a person who does nothing for the company? It seems to me then, assuming that the investor does not produce wealth, that the company would be better off not paying them. But they don't, so why is that Moot?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Didn't ignore. It didn't convince or prove anything.
    Then respond to it. Explain how it didn't convince or prove because it is directly contradicting you.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Newsflash: Census uses outdated methods for its findings.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Then respond to it. Explain how it didn't convince or prove because it is directly contradicting you.
    In and of itself it is not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Over the years we've seen many studies, not just the census, making the same findings. We've seen people working two jobs, and brining home less money. We see more wealthy and more poor, and less in between. It doesn't matter how many people are in a houseold. and many buy on credit (a problem I might add). What he brings up really doesn't speak to the problem in any I can see.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In and of itself it is not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Over the years we've seen many studies, not just the census, making the same findings. We've seen people working two jobs, and brining home less money. We see more wealthy and more poor, and less in between. It doesn't matter how many people are in a houseold. and many buy on credit (a problem I might add). What he brings up really doesn't speak to the problem in any I can see.
    Those studies, as I have pointed out, all have the same flaw of looking at snapshots and comparing classes, while ignoring the fact that the composition of those classes changes with time. All of the studies that you have pointed out do this, whether they use census data or IRS data, they all fall into the same trap.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Those studies, as I have pointed out, all have the same flaw of looking at snapshots and comparing classes, while ignoring the fact that the composition of those classes changes with time. All of the studies that you have pointed out do this, whether they use census data or IRS data, they all fall into the same trap.
    No, I don't think you have. true many articles refer to the census, but others refer to other studies. Multiple sources looking at the same and different information reach the same conclusion. The middle class has shrunk and the divide between rich and poor is greater. And this can be true regardless of changing compositions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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