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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

  1. #451
    Student JakeFromWI's Avatar
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Almost goes without saying, the main cause of "poor" is lack of education, whether it is the fault of the kid, the parents, the schools, whatever.
    There are several ways to succeed, but almost always the best way is thru education.
    Many poor don't see the value of education, many rich just want to pay for their own kids and let the rest remain ignorant.
    We have had so much progress in technology in the last few decades, it is understandable that the education system is lagging in its responsibilities. Hopefully the public will acknowledge that and demand more from govt. Certainly the curriculum needs massaging.
    More from the government? I think the real argument here is that the government needs to stay out of this mess. The mess being the rich getting more and the poor getting less. The government should have nothing to do with the theft of the wealth of this nation. They need to fight in Afghanistan and protect us there.

    The CEO to employee ratio of pay increases every year. But we argue that they deserve more than us. That's fine. But not a proportional increase to the average worker's salary. More for them and less for us is not OK. Does anyone get this concept. I'm not saying more for them is bad...I'm saying more for them, while we see less is.

    We look at these statistics and argue hard work, no work, education blah blah.

    Because Jim and Alice Walton work 200,000 times harder than I do. Or maybe they were educated 200,000 times longer at a school 200,000 times better than Marquette University.
    and so it goes...

  2. #452
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Or how about this for a statistic...

    "If the minimum wage had increased as quickly as CEO pay since 1990, it would today be $15.71 per hour, more than three times the current minimum wage of $5.15 an hour."

    How is this ok? The problem is we have no protection. Those who make the money make the rules. How can the average pay of a CEO be 3 times more than 20 years ago, but this country has seen a far less than 300% GDP growth since then.

    The money had to come from somewhere....and the money comes from us. To people with more than us. And it will be more next year. And then more. And then more. But the government does to much already.

    How come the argument always goes back to "they are allowed to have lots of money?" Not grossly disproportionate amounts. But they made record profits. Because they made layoffs.
    Last edited by JakeFromWI; 10-04-10 at 02:29 PM.
    and so it goes...

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Or how about this for a statistic...

    "If the minimum wage had increased as quickly as CEO pay since 1990, it would today be $15.71 per hour, more than three times the current minimum wage of $5.15 an hour."

    How is this ok. The problem is we have no protection. Those who make the money make the rules. How can the average pay of a CEO be 3 times more than 20 years ago, but this country far less than a 300% gdp growth since then.

    The money had to come from somewhere....and the money comes from us. To people with more than us. And it will be more next year. And then more. And then more. But the government does to much already. So its fine!
    um, most states have a minimum wage that is 7$ not 5. And most minimum wage jobs pay at least 2 dollars more than the lowest they need to pay.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeFromWI View Post
    Or how about this for a statistic...

    "If the minimum wage had increased as quickly as CEO pay since 1990, it would today be $15.71 per hour, more than three times the current minimum wage of $5.15 an hour."
    This statistic is thrown out all the time, but nobody can ever explain it. How was this calculated? CEO's of what?

    If the companies that these CEO's work for have expanded much faster than the general economy, then why wouldn't you expect to see that?

    If a guy who manages a 500 person company in 1990 end up managing a 50,000 person company in 2000, he should be getting paid substantially more.
    If a guy who mops floors in 1990 ends up mopping floors in 2000, his pay should be relatively stable.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 10-04-10 at 02:35 PM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    um, most states have a minimum wage that is 7$ not 5. And most minimum wage jobs pay at least 2 dollars more than the lowest they need to pay.
    And I wonder how many dollars more CEO's get than what they need to be paid.
    and so it goes...

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    Student JakeFromWI's Avatar
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This statistic is thrown out all the time, but nobody can ever explain it. How was this calculated? CEO's of what?

    If the companies that these CEO's work for have expanded much faster than the general economy, then why wouldn't you expect to see that?
    The point is so exactly that RightinNYC. You expect a company that does well to pay its CEO more. The general employees must have had nothing to do with the profits though. If the general economy is in fact the thousands of people working under you, and you don't pay them more when the corporation makes yearly record profits, but you pay the top huge payouts, we run into an economy like this one. A former rural area of Wal-Marts with $8/hr communities. CEO's getting paid more than ever even when thier corporations fail, or are failing. Wall Street insider trading. Verizon's "software malfunctions" that incurred micro charges for data use to accounts that couldn't even use data - accruing to $50m usd for Verizon.

    I just can not understand the logic behind a company failing. Making layoffs. And giving bonuses to those on top?

    Call it naivete, but if I read a statistic like CEO to worker pay gap increases in an economy like this, I'd be worried, and trying to fix it. Not trying to justify it simply because the government shouldnt be involved. If they shouldn't be involved, aren't involved yet, and you'd like to keep it that way. Don't blame Obama for the economy either.

    One can't expect him to fix it without having anything to do with it.
    and so it goes...

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    There is a theoretical community where $10,000 exists. Ten people live there and each have $600. Except for 1 person. He has $4,000

    Now lets insert a model where the community makes $2,000 GDP. So, by the end of the year there will be $12,000 in the community.

    And we say the only reason the community makes money is because of the woman who has $4,000 and gets money from everyone else who happens to work very hard for her.

    At the end of the year everyone has $580 but person number 10 has $6,180.

    And this is good for the economy. And fair. Because the company did better than the overall economy.

    Did I explain it well enough!
    and so it goes...

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    For now. Thanks to the damage that the boomers have done to our country, SS will almost certainly be means-tested by the time my generation gets ready to retire.
    I can't deny the baby boomers have wreaked havoc on this country. But SS isn't the problem, congress borrowing from SS trust fund is. I feel bad for your generation because paying for the Iraq War is going to be passed onto you and your kids. So if SS survives by the time you retire, you might be glad you have it.

    There are tens of millions of people who do just that. 25% of people over 65 get 90+% of their income from SS. 2/3 of people over 65 get 50+% of their income from SS.
    So it's a good thing we have SS then, or else all those seniors would be living in the streets or on welfare. And don't forget, those seniors paid a substantial sum from their paychecks into SS and feel they deserve to get something in return.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    One of the things that government does, is protect us from out of control corporations. That being the case, who protects us from out of control government?
    We are protected by voting. What drives me mad is that nobody seems to see the connection between the two parties we have and the problem. The left blames the right and the right blames the left. They BOTH are the problem.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    ender1;1059019017]I have read the constitution several times. Serving the people is the purpose of government.
    That was then, Ender1. Remember what Ben Franklin said about "We have given you a democratic-republic if you can keep it "? It's getting iffy, and this is why... "I also believe that the government has become the right arm of big business". When did this distrust of "big business" start? The United States has always had big business and the jobs derived thereof. Now it's a bad thing? If you want more mom and pop shops you'll find yourself with fewer and more expensive computers, automobiles, and so on. You may want to reconsider that position.

    "If you are wealthy and leave the country just because you want to keep it your a coward.
    That suggests the government knows better on how to spend your money than you do. If someone earned their money legally the government should have no claim to it apart from the same percentage of income every other citizen pays. Now it's "the rich". Who will you go after once they run out of money? Calling them "cowards" isn't going to encourage them so stay.

    If I start thinking about our freedoms I want to cry. President Bush single handed took away 2 or three of my freedoms.
    Which ones were they?
    President Obama only voted to take away one.
    And that is?

    I agree with the government not serving me. So why do so many people vote democrat and republican. We do have the power and a peaceful system in place to support it.
    If you agree with the government not serving you, why vote for more social programs and then expect "The rich" to pay for them?

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