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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One thing I agree with you on is that tax cuts have little to nothing to do with the gap. Very true.

    But the problem isn't envy or lazy poor or any of those easy sound bite answers. Left with no controls, every society will eventually lead to such a division. Keeping a strong middle class doesn't actually happen naturally. But to our system, it is essential that we have one. The greater the divide, the harder it will be to sell the myth of equal opportunity, that anyone can reach the top.
    You both are right on so much. But really there are way too many people in this nation feeling that someone should be supporting them. They look to the government for that and that is not right. You do not hand out money just so that people who do not want to work won't.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One thing I agree with you on is that tax cuts have little to nothing to do with the gap. Very true.

    But the problem isn't envy or lazy poor or any of those easy sound bite answers. Left with no controls, every society will eventually lead to such a division. Keeping a strong middle class doesn't actually happen naturally. But to our system, it is essential that we have one. The greater the divide, the harder it will be to sell the myth of equal opportunity, that anyone can reach the top.
    Boo...if the rich continue to excel (get richer) and the poor continue to fail (and are given excuses to fail) then how does ANYONE expect that gap to NOT grow? The reality is that UNLESS the poor shift gears and TRY, they will NEVER succeed. Blaming the rich may make people feeeeel better...but it WILL NOT solve their problems. No amount of handout programs will solve their problems. They HAVE to decide to first and foremost get UP.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    You both are right on so much. But really there are way too many people in this nation feeling that someone should be supporting them. They look to the government for that and that is not right. You do not hand out money just so that people who do not want to work won't.
    Thanks for your response. we may agree too many, but finding out how many would be difficult. I would argue it is probably not our largest probelm and not the cause for the divide.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #374
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I also will end up quad dipping while my wife will be double dipping AND enjoying the benefits of a pretty healthy and safe investment portfolio that has been pretty much bullet proof. If you retire from the military...you will at least be double dipping and if you do get a career after military life (a certainty, because retirement from the military really equals 'unemployed').

    The thread has centered on tax cuts which is a shame because tax cuts dont have a THING to do with the gap between the rich and the poor. The left clamors for more taxes on the wealthy to pay for more social programs for the crippled and dependent pets that keep voting them in power...but that does NOT create the gap. The poor are not poor because some rich guy or gal is successful. The poor are poor because they FAIL. They failed to prepare, they failed to recover, and now they simply whine about how unfair life is.

    When I saw peoples comments that the poor are poor because the rich 'steal' from them, I laughed. I snorted in disgust too...but mostly...I just laughed. When i saw peoples comments that the rich try to make people poor or keep people poor...again...nothing but pure derisive laughter. How people can be that pathetic and stupid is beyond me. I am in the top 5% and if you think I spend even a second devising diabolical and devious plans to keep people poor, then you are sadly mistaken. I WANT people to succeed. I WANT people to get off their lazyu pathetic whiny asses and start doing for themselves and providing for their families (and all those children they create and dont take care of). I WANT them to stop being such a drain on society. I WANT them to be succesful. And some...MANY actually do. Tragically...far too many dont. And thats a tragedy for all of us...because they suffer...the children they invariably spawn suffer...and overall we as a society also suffer. The ONLY people that win with the poor are democrat politicians that exploit their poverty for their votes.
    Double, triple, quad dipping, is is what we were taught to do when we were told not to keep all our eggs in one basket.
    This stuff should be taught in 7th grade, and repeat in 8th grade, to make sure that future dropouts have been exposed to SOME financial education...
    People who fail to prepare for their own future have first been failed by their parents, then their schools. I wish there was a magic wand that we could use like a stick to beat some sense into people's heads, but I already know that all that would do is make the stupid have sore heads. Some of my siblings need that magic wand applied to them in spades...but at their age, it is too late for them.
    BTW, stupid means KNOWING you are uneducated, and still you avoid gaining knowledge like it is a disease or something.
    Most everyone has sufficeint smarts to learn, but many choose willful ignorance.
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Common sense is your friend, use it.

    If you don't have the money to spend, then don't borrow it so you can.
    OMG!!! That's EXACTLY what many of us have been saying!!! If the deficit is such a major concern for Conservatives, what sense does it make to give tax cuts to the wealthiest wage earners if doing so means we have to borrow that money to pay for them which, in turn, will only increase the national debt?

    You just said, "If you don't have the money to spend, then don't borrow it so you can." Well, our government does not have $700 billion dollars to pay for the largest tax cuts to go to the smallest number of people. It just doesn't make good financial sense to give tax cuts to those who really don't need them. If the government doesn't borrow the money, they'll be forced to print it with no way to actually pay for it other than eventually increasing taxes or cutting alot of programs. I know the latter is what many Conservatives would rather have happen, but if any of you have been paying close attention to what's happening in many European countries right now, the U.S. is bound to face the exact same problems if Republicans regain control of Congress.

    If we are to turn our economic situation around, some tough decisions will have to be made in regards to government spending. This we all can agree on. But the bigger issue for the here and now is how best to spur economic growth. I think the President has this country moving in the right direction. By enacting legislation that provide small business loans through those financial institutions who can reach small businesses faster (small, local banks and credit unions), capital will begin to flow again to get our economic engine moving again. Providing tax cuts to the middle-class should give consumers some financial breathing room so that they (and by "they" I mean those of us who make up the middle-class) can buy goods and services, thus, spurring consumer demand. Once demand increases, productivity is bound to follow. As productivity increases, so should business revenue. Where revenue increases, businesses should have the working capital to add to their payrolls which means they'll be able to hire more.

    The wealthy don't need tax cuts, not for their personal income. They need it for the very businesses they create and manage. Therefore, it makes more sense to give those tax breaks (cuts) to small businesses themselves rather then focusing same towards the personal income of the rich. Let's face it, the truth is the wealthy won't use their pre-tax dollars to invest in small business ventures. They'll place their pre-tax dollar in tax shelters (i.e., 401K, ETF, mutual funds, etc.) to increase their networth. Granted, these investments do help major corporations generate revenues (i.e., sell of stocks, bonds, T-Bills, etc.) and that's what many people think of when the discussion of tax cuts to the wealthy comes about, but these such investments commonly don't benefit the typical "small business", i.e., the day care center, lawn care service, barbar shop, auto mechanic, small bouteque, the hair salon, the small independent book seller, the TV/copier repair service, the small restuarant owner, the corner coffee shop (that's not Starbucks), your cleaner or tailor, etc., etc...the vast number of small businesses that do the majority of the hiring across the country. These are the businesses who need the economic help the most because they hire more people from within their communities!

    So, if you (Republicans) really want to help move this nation's economy forward either get behind legislation that will help move this country forward or get the hell outta the way!

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Boo...if the rich continue to excel (get richer) and the poor continue to fail (and are given excuses to fail) then how does ANYONE expect that gap to NOT grow? The reality is that UNLESS the poor shift gears and TRY, they will NEVER succeed. Blaming the rich may make people feeeeel better...but it WILL NOT solve their problems. No amount of handout programs will solve their problems. They HAVE to decide to first and foremost get UP.
    You've brought me right back to what I said earlier, that unless people have access to information (i.e., education) on how to change their social-economic dynamic, they'll never know that there is or can be a better way.

    The sad part here is that what UtahBill (and Boo Radley) have mentioned concerning the lack of elementary financial management skills that should be taught at school and in the home was the focus of a recent Senate hearing held just yesterday. It's no wonder so many are finding themselves way below the povery line when something as basic as economics - how to balance a checkbook or prepare a budget - are no longer (or barely) taught in our nation's schools. And that's just the surface of the matter!

    If we want the poor to start fending for themselves, they have to be educated that there is better for them other than their present condition. From there, the opportunities have to be created and recognized. Unless and until these things happen, there will always be those who either find themselves on social services program OR dependent/reliant on same to survive.

    This linked article isn't exactly what I'm referring to above, but it certainly speaks to the theme of this thread - the disparity in the gap betweent he rich and the poor in this country, and to my argument personally - the fact that not everyone wants to be on social services programs, but sometimes circumstances beyond their control force people to turn to such programs. For some, such programs are the last resort.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-01-10 at 01:29 PM.

  7. #377
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do you spend so much time advocating other people pay more taxes when they already pay far more than you do?
    Well, its not fair that they have so much more than him - so he blindly supports the people that promise to even things out.
    He's entitled, after all.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You've brought me right back to what I said earlier, that unless people have access to information (i.e., education) on how to change their social-economic dynamic, they'll never know that there is or can be a better way.

    The sad part here is that what UtahBill (and Boo Radley) have mentioned concerning the lack of elementary financial management skills that should be taught at school and in the home was the focus of a recent Senate hearing held just yesterday. It's no wonder so many are finding themselves way below the povery line when something as basic as economics - how to balance a checkbook or prepare a budget - are no longer (or barely) taught in our nation's schools. And that's just the surface of the matter!

    If we want the poor to start fending for themselves, they have to be educated that there is better for them other than their present condition. From there, the opportunities have to be created and recognized. Unless and until these things happen, there will always be those who either find themselves on social services program OR dependent/reliant on same to survive.

    This linked article isn't exactly what I'm referring to above, but it certainly speaks to the theme of this thread - the disparity in the gap betweent he rich and the poor in this country, and to my argument personally - the fact that not everyone wants to be on social services programs, but sometimes circumstances beyond their control force people to turn to such programs. For some, such programs are the last resort.
    Not playing 'gotcha' debate tactics here...but this is hell and gone from "The rich are stealing from the poor." And I have also said from the outset...by all means...create hand-UP programs...and I'll gladly continue to contribute my PERSONAL resources. I dont need the federal government to pay for my charity and support. However since the new deal the programs have been handout programs that punish progress and keep people poor. That HAS to change if there will ever BE change.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Boo...if the rich continue to excel (get richer) and the poor continue to fail (and are given excuses to fail) then how does ANYONE expect that gap to NOT grow? The reality is that UNLESS the poor shift gears and TRY, they will NEVER succeed. Blaming the rich may make people feeeeel better...but it WILL NOT solve their problems. No amount of handout programs will solve their problems. They HAVE to decide to first and foremost get UP.
    absolutely but as long as we make failing both comfortable and needed (for the dem party to get votes) it won't change. and bashing the rich won't change anything for the better but might even contribute to the slackers remaining slothful since rich bashing contributes to their mistaken belief that they cannot achieve no matter what.



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    The rich will continue to get richer because they send their children to private schools while the poor have their children going to public schools, where loyalty to the Unions comes before loyalty to the children's education.

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