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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

  1. #201
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    You know, it's funny, but I'm a little older than most here and I can still remember that time when we thought of ourselves as a middle class society and took pride in that. It was the source of our strength as a country, and we saw the creation of a middle class society as an ideal.

    The Reagan era ushered in a new paradigm, though, one where greed was good and "trickle down" theory postulated that if we just allow the rich get rich enough, they would throw the rest of us a bone and allow just the tiniest little bit to "trickle" back down. Along with this old economic scheme (old in that the concentration of wealth in a few hands is the traditional pattern) came the elimination of the fairness doctrine insuring that the pundits would have unfettered access to the media pulpit so to train us properly, as well as the attacks upon the Unions. Today, we are not only NOT a middle class society and one with a social stratification resembling a third world country, but we have abandoned the ideal that we should even BE a middle class society. The ideal of the sort of middle class society in which I grew up is now seen as some nefarious socialist "redistribution" of wealth!

    My, how times change. I keep wondering, though, whether I am old fashioned in wanting us to return to the American ideals of my youth and I'm therefore a conservative, or if I am just one of these "socialists" everybody keeps warning us about?
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This assumes, of course, that tax rates are the only thing that affect emplyment/unemployment.
    Taxation is one of many various components that drive our nation's economy. However, it is true that the less outlays a company has the more money they're able to allocate towards other facets of their business. Still, taxes are just one part of the larger equation. That aside, as I review the history of the Great Depression, I find it very interesting that the Great Recession we're currently in share the exact same origins with the same end results - too much market speculation (risk) resulting in massive lose of capital resulting in a run on the banks followed by massive job lay-offs and high unemployment. Most lawmakers and economist agree that then just as now the greed across the economic spectrum and a lack of regulatory oversight were the root causes. As then as it is now, businesses are waiting to see how the new legislation pans out before hiring and consumers are holding firm to their savings in the hopes of riding out the economic storm.

    History in America has repeated itself.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-29-10 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You know, it's funny, but I'm a little older than most here and I can still remember that time when we thought of ourselves as a middle class society and took pride in that. It was the source of our strength as a country, and we saw the creation of a middle class society as an ideal.

    The Reagan era ushered in a new paradigm, though, one where greed was good and "trickle down" theory postulated that if we just allow the rich get rich enough, they would throw the rest of us a bone and allow just the tiniest little bit to "trickle" back down. Along with this old economic scheme (old in that the concentration of wealth in a few hands is the traditional pattern) came the elimination of the fairness doctrine insuring that the pundits would have unfettered access to the media pulpit so to train us properly, as well as the attacks upon the Unions. Today, we are not only NOT a middle class society and one with a social stratification resembling a third world country, but we have abandoned the ideal that we should even BE a middle class society. The ideal of the sort of middle class society in which I grew up is now seen as some nefarious socialist "redistribution" of wealth!

    My, how times change. I keep wondering, though, whether I am old fashioned in wanting us to return to the American ideals of my youth and I'm therefore a conservative, or if I am just one of these "socialists" everybody keeps warning us about?

    the real reason we don't have much of a middle class these days is because just about anyone who still has a job is considered "rich" by the Obamanites and thus fair game to be looted to help "the poor"

    How much of the decline in the middle class is due to people becoming more wealthy and thus being considered rich
    How much of the decline in the middle class is due to raising the bar on the poverty level so that some at the lower end of the scale are now considered "poor"
    And how much of the decline is actually due to people making less money than they used to and are now "poor"

    I'd love to see those statistics.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Taxation is one of many various components that drive our nation's economy. However, it is true that the less outlays a company has the more money they're able to allocate towards other facets of their business. Still, taxes are just one part of the larger equation. That aside, as I review the history of the Great Depression, I find it very interesting that the Great Recession we're currently in share the exact same origins with the same end results - too much market speculation (risk) resulting in massive lose of capital resulting in a run on the banks followed by massive job lay-offs and high unemployment. Most lawmakers and economist agree that then just as now the greed across the economic spectrum and a lack of regulatory oversight were the root causes. As then as it is now, businesses are waiting to see how the new legislation pans out before hiring and consumers are holding firm to their savings in the hopes of riding out the economic storm.

    History in America has repeated itself.
    Market speculation when taxes on the rich people were low; they used the extra money to gamble rather to invest in their businesses. The tax rate prior to the Great Depression was 24%. Everyone lived the life of easy street until it came crashing down.


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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Some of you still want to make this about poor whiny bitch poor people that didn't prepare themselves for a future having all their money stolen by evil rich people. Id LOVE to hear how that goes. Id love to hear how hard working people lost everything because some rich guy sneaked into their home and stole it from them.

    Sorry...no excuses. If you FAIL you FAIL because you are a FAILURE...because you didn't prepare yourself. Blame yourself-go look in the mirror and see who is responsible. Blame your mommy and daddy for not teaching you the value of hard work...but stop pretending ANYONE else is to blame. Its not about tax rates. Its not about pay scales. People fail because they failed to prepare and fail to work hard to undo the damage they themselves caused. They got college degrees in fields with no future. I work with people daily who dug themselves into the fail pit and through hard work...yes...even in today's economy, dug themselves out. Its not easy. Its hard work. They don't do it by doing the same failed things. I also work with many that have have just quit...they whine or complain about how unfair it is. There is no hand up for them because they want the hand out and there are far too many programs there to give it to them.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    [/B]
    To hound, or to enforce the law? I guess it depends on where you stand with IRS laws. If you are a tax cheat, you might be disposed to use the word hound....
    People have less money, now, than they had in the past few years. obviously, it's going to become harder to pay taxes. So, tax cheat, or not, people are going to get hounded. People who think like you do, are apart of that half of the country that doesn't pay taxes. It's always easy to support laws that effect other people's money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Market speculation when taxes on the rich people were low; they used the extra money to gamble rather to invest in their businesses. The tax rate prior to the Great Depression was 24%. Everyone lived the life of easy street until it came crashing down.
    Libs go to such great lengths to justify income redistribution through taxes. the main reasons why we are losing the middle class involve several things

    1) the global economy. You no longer can get paid middle class wages doing unskilled labor because someone in Malaysia can do the same job for one fourth the pay

    2) welfare socialism has sapped the desire of many to strive to make it to the middle class. Being "poor" is far more comfortable than it was 100 years ago

    3) Education and hi-tech skills are the ticket into the middle class or the lower strata of "the wealthy" (ie those targeted for attacks by the left and tax hikes). sadly, too many Americans don't have the drive to become as educated as they should be. Why do the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors and the children of "boat people" and those who fled "the great leap forward" (my sister in law's parents-she graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, her brother a phi beta kappa in engineering at cornell) have so much higher rates of education than say our two largest minority groups -both of which have not had to face the same level of persecution in their lifetimes that the former groups have.



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the real reason we don't have much of a middle class these days is because just about anyone who still has a job is considered "rich" by the Obamanites and thus fair game to be looted to help "the poor"

    How much of the decline in the middle class is due to people becoming more wealthy and thus being considered rich
    How much of the decline in the middle class is due to raising the bar on the poverty level so that some at the lower end of the scale are now considered "poor"
    And how much of the decline is actually due to people making less money than they used to and are now "poor"

    I'd love to see those statistics.
    I would love to see the statiistics on how many people ar now, "poor", because government policies killed their jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Market speculation when taxes on the rich people were low; they used the extra money to gamble rather to invest in their businesses. The tax rate prior to the Great Depression was 24%. Everyone lived the life of easy street until it came crashing down.
    So, IOW, we have to keep people from becoming rich, for our own good. Am I close?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    what brought us where we are today, more than anything else, in great contrast to 1929, is SUBPRIME

    it was an activist agenda, extremely energetic, at the federal level, to put folks in flats they frankly can't afford

    this may be good, may be bad, but when it's done to the extent it was, millions, maybe even a small number of tens of millions, then you're begging for a collapse

    it was fannie and fred as operated by dodd and frank, and president bush was in deep, as well, he was always promoting this surge of minority home ownership that occurred under his watch

    these people were given house keys with no qual's, low qual's, no credit, negative amortizations, balloons, adjustables...

    all kinds of conceivable props and gimmicks to provide our friends, neighbors and fellow workers a break which ultimate broke them and the lenders and us

    it was insane

    how many of us know multiple families in homes underwater, making post-adjustable mortgage payments that are back breaking, yet trapped in upside down homes with no real way out except to walk away

    as a public school teacher in the san francisco bay area i know many

    ironically, many of these people live in nicer homes than mine which is paid for, bigger, newer, more amenities...

    it's tragic, all the way around

    there are still waves of foreclosures out there, they're able to be foreseen because of the known status, the scheduling of their adjustables, balloons...

    every real estate pro in the msm for the last 2 years has said, month after month, we've still got a lot more pain to endure

    4 million or so more foreclosures are forecast, as of today

    it is what it is

    SUBPRIME, or that same phenomenon by whatever name you prefer

    the entire market, buyers and lenders, were all counting on housing continuing its seemingly inevitable appreciation

    the equity accrued thereby would qualify the subprimers for refi's, solid fixed mortgages, in advance of the awful adjustables and obscene balloons

    and that's the way the market worked for quite awhile

    there was lots of talk of lenders making a killing, escrow agents, closers, even home inspectors, simply on volume

    this is why obama's wall street reg reform, his second highest legislative achievement, is so off the mark as it excludes the f's from reform

    where's the change?
    Last edited by The Prof; 09-29-10 at 09:09 PM.

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