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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

  1. #181
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Conflating CEO's with the millions of people earning over $250k doesn't help your argument.
    It doesn't help your argument to lie about mine, either. I specifically said CEO's and made no mention of those making over $250K.

    What are you even talking about?
    I was talking about the worth of a man's labor. What are you talking about?

    You really, seriously, don't understand the difference between slavery and the free market?
    Seriously, can't you follow a discussion?

    Yes, every person earning over $250k just FORCED us into that war.
    Oh dats right, da poor folks FORCED us into Bush's dirty little war. Yeah, dat's da ticket, blame da poor.

    I'm opposed to extending unemployment, so I can just take that out of my tax bill, right? That's not how taxes work.
    Well, duh. Be sure to tell that to the Birchers the next time they talk about wealth distribution, will ya?

    Again, why do you keep conflating billionaires who earn their income via capital gains with all people earning over $250k?
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

    The average person earning more than $250k pays a much higher percentage of his income in federal tax than the average person earning less.
    You are seriously mistaken, because I haven't said a word about people making $250K or more, so it must be you doing all the conflating. Yes, in fact I know it is. The people I'm referring to are in the top 1% and while their average earned income is around $7.4 million and is taxed at 21.4%, which is far less than what you claim people making 60K or even $250K are taxed, and the bulk of their income comes from dividends and capital gains which is taxed at 15%. So in essence, the more money they make the less tax they pay. Oh but heaven forbid you should take my word for it, instead take it from your link from the Tax Foundation....

    "...The average income for a tax return in this top 0.1 percent is $7.4 million, while the average amount of income tax paid is $1.6 million, indicating an average effective individual income tax rate of 21.5 percent. This very top income group actually has a lower average effective tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates. (Note that in the case of capital gains and dividends, in most cases the income has already been taxed once by the corporate income tax, which is not included here.) ...."
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    Now, now, don't worry your little head about that silly ol corporate income tax mentioned above, because most corporations don't hardly pay any tax at all thanks to "corporate welfare" in the form of tax subsidies, tax breaks, write offs, off shore bank accounts and what not. Oh those poor, poor, corporations, <sniff, sniff> the big bad ol government is so mean to them, boo hoo.

    No, he was using a technical economic term, something that appears to be wasted on this thread.
    Apparently it went over your head too, because unearned income means exactly that, unearned income.

    lolllll

    If you don't even know what ballpark the estate tax is in, you shouldn't try to talk about what we should do with it.
    Uh huh. Well, I know enough to know that you use snarky little insults to hide behind when you don't know wtf you're talking about. And that is certainly the case here and in almost all your other posts as well. Yup.
    Last edited by Moot; 09-29-10 at 05:13 AM.

  2. #182
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Good, because that is exactly what I hoped they would do.
    that is exactly what you hoped they would do?

    LOL!

    head into the midterm telling americans, hey, we just couldn't get around to extending those cuts which even tax-the-rich obama says must not be raised in times like these?

    unfortunately you have jiltin joe lieberman, stiffneck nelson, bye bye evan bayh and the BUDGET CHAIR kent conrad standing between you and your personal druthers upstairs

    and folks like joe donnelly, marion berry, allen boyd and bobby bright aren't gonna come around on pelosi's rented carpet

    yup, leadership knows exactly what it's doing

    some people are simply un-embarrassable, it appears

    party on, pollyana, seeya at the polls

    and beyond

  3. #183
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    that is exactly what you hoped they would do?

    LOL!

    head into the midterm telling americans, hey, we just couldn't get around to extending those cuts which even tax-the-rich obama says must not be raised in times like these?

    unfortunately you have jiltin joe lieberman, stiffneck nelson, bye bye evan bayh and the BUDGET CHAIR kent conrad standing between you and your personal druthers upstairs

    and folks like joe donnelly, marion berry, allen boyd and bobby bright aren't gonna come around on pelosi's rented carpet

    yup, leadership knows exactly what it's doing

    some people are simply un-embarrassable, it appears

    party on, pollyana, seeya at the polls

    and beyond
    You have a lot to learn about the game of politics, dahlink.

  4. #184
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    tell it to the BUDGET CHAIR

  5. #185
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It doesn't help your argument to lie about mine, either. I specifically said CEO's and made no mention of those making over $250K.
    And given that the rest of us are conducting a discussion in the shadow of a proposed tax increase on those earning over $250k, I'm wondering why you thought that was relevant.

    Either way, both the CEO making millions and the person earning $250k pay a greater percentage of their income in fed income tax than the average worker, contrary to the claim in your post.

    I was talking about the worth of a man's labor. What are you talking about?

    Seriously, can't you follow a discussion?
    You're arguing that the wage gap is equivalent to slavery. I asked you for a shred of evidence to support that claim. You've offered nothing.

    Oh dats right, da poor folks FORCED us into Bush's dirty little war. Yeah, dat's da ticket, blame da poor.
    Where did I say that? I recognize the ridiculousness of claiming that an entire class of people "pushed us into war" based solely on their income bracket. You're the one who claimed that the "elite" as an earning group caused the war.

    Well, duh. Be sure to tell that to the Birchers the next time they talk about wealth distribution, will ya?
    Ah, it's the Birchers fault, of course. You couldn't fit Koch or Glenn Beck in there too?

    The people I'm referring to are in the top 1% and while their average earned income is around $7.4 million and is taxed at 21.4%, which is far less than what you claim people making 60K or even $250K are taxed
    No, it's not. I really don't know how I can be more clear about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by facts
    Average federal income tax rates as a percentage of AGI:

    Top 1%: 22.45%
    Top 1-5%: 20.53%
    Top 6-10%: 12.66%
    Top 11-25%: 9.43%
    Top 26-50%: 7.01%
    Bottom 50%: 2.99%
    Oh but heaven forbid you should take my word for it, instead take it from your link from the Tax Foundation....
    How does anything in that quote contradict anything I've said?

    Now, now, don't worry your little head about that silly ol corporate income tax mentioned above, because most corporations don't hardly pay any tax at all thanks to "corporate welfare" in the form of tax subsidies, tax breaks, write offs, off shore bank accounts and what not.
    lol

    Oh, well if you say so!

    Apparently it went over your head too, because unearned income means exactly that, unearned income.
    I'm well aware of what "unearned income" is. You don't appear to be, as you thought you proved a point by getting someone to use the term.

    Uh huh. Well, I know enough to know that you use snarky little insults to hide behind when you don't know wtf you're talking about. And that is certainly the case here and in almost all your other posts as well. Yup.
    You thought that the estate tax had to do with rich people getting free land. I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about?
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 09-29-10 at 05:37 AM.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes, and since we're talking about raising or not raising federal income taxes, I don't understand why you keep on including things like local property taxes.
    This thread is about the gap between the rich and poor not about federal income taxes. Once you include all taxes it paints a very different picture of tax burden in this country. You realize that we have virtually a flat tax extending from 66K on up. Furthermore, a tax cut for those who make 66K to 250K is nothing compared to a taxcut on those making 250K and up. Giving a tax cut to the middle class will actually make the tax system progressive instead of flat. And that makes sense since people in the middle class have considerably less discretionary income than the rich do. Furthermore, all combined, the rich in the country are paying a 30% tax rate, which is considerably low.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 09-29-10 at 05:49 AM.

  7. #187
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    This thread is about the gap between the rich and poor not about federal income taxes. Once you include all taxes it paints a very different picture of tax burden in this country.
    It's not the federal government's job to concern itself with state and local property and sales taxes. The federal income tax is already highly progressive. If state and local taxes are not (which I'm by no means conceding), then that's where you should be directing your concerns.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not the federal government's job to concern itself with state and local property and sales taxes. The federal income tax is already highly progressive. If state and local taxes are not (which I'm by no means conceding), then that's where you should be directing your concerns.
    Why would the federal government not consider the tax burden faced by the population on the local and state level? That doesn't make any sense. The federal tax system, by itself, is progressive, but the actual cumulative tax burden is virtually a flat tax. Also, states and localities are in no way restricted from how they tax, but the federal government is perfectly entitled to take into account how they tax when determining how it should tax.

  9. #189
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Why would the federal government not consider the tax burden faced by the population on the local and state level? That doesn't make any sense. The federal tax system, by itself, is progressive, but the actual cumulative tax burden is virtually a flat tax. Also, states and localities are in no way restricted from how they tax, but the federal government is perfectly entitled to take into account how they tax when determining how it should tax.
    The federal government doesn't consider it 1) because it's not the federal government's job to do so, and 2) because there are 50 different states with 50 different taxation systems and thousands more municipalities with thousands more taxation systems.

    Some states have no income tax, others have no sales tax, others have no estate tax and others allow the deduction of federal income taxes. Some municipalities have special income taxes on high earners, others have no sales tax on certain goods, and yet others are notorious for high or low property and school taxes.

    Simply put, this wide diversity of tax schemes means that even if the federal government wanted to, it couldn't adjust its tax policies to create a system like you're envisioning.
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The federal government doesn't consider it 1) because it's not the federal government's job to do so, and 2) because there are 50 different states with 50 different taxation systems and thousands more municipalities with thousands more taxation systems.

    Some states have no income tax, others have no sales tax, others have no estate tax and others allow the deduction of federal income taxes. Some municipalities have special income taxes on high earners, others have no sales tax on certain goods, and yet others are notorious for high or low property and school taxes.

    Simply put, this wide diversity of tax schemes means that even if the federal government wanted to, it couldn't adjust its tax policies to create a system like you're envisioning.
    I'm pretty sure they already do it and have been doing it for a long time. States collect state income tax and property taxes and record taxes of localities. It's easy enough for the federal government to collect that information from the states.

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