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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You can assume whatever you want because quite frankly it doesn't matter to me. The American people get it and spoke on Tuesday night. Seems that the majority believe the numbers I posted and if you really cared you would do your own research and verify what I have provided to you. 682 State legislatures turned over to the GOP and Republicans took over the house. They did so not because of what happened during the Bush administration but instead because what Obama has done. His record speaks for itself. He couldn't have inherited what he helped create.

    You don't seem to have a basic understanding of how our govt. works. Please take a civics class. We have three equal branches of govt. and Congress controls the purse strings, not the President. Debt isn't created by the President, it is created by the Congress regardless of anything you post.

    President Obama took over during a recession that he did nothing to prevent. There was a banking crisis that happened in 2008. TARP was created and passed by President Bush. That is the program that saved the banks, Obama did nothing to prevent the bank failures. TARP cost 700 billion dollars. Bush spent 350 billion and left the other 350 billion for Obama. Obama spent 150 billion of that 350 billion so the total was 500 billion spent. He still has 200 billion that no one know what he has done with it, just like no one knows what he did with the repayment yet he claims he inherited a budget deficit from Bush. You and the other Obama minions bought the rhetoric but never stopped to think how President Bush created a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit from October 1, 2008 to January 21, 2009. Please answer that question. Then banks that were bailed out under TARP paid back the funds with interest. hundreds of billions of dollars were paid back in 2009. Where did that payback go? Questions that everyone should be asking. How about an answer?

    Barack Obama took over passed a 800+billion stimulus plan that was for shovel ready jobs. We now find out he bailed out teacher unions and "saved" teachers' jobs. Since when are teachers' jobs shovel ready projects and since when is it the Federal Govt. job to save state jobs? Questions again but no answers from Obama supporters.

    So, Donc, you can continue to live in the past,, ignore actual results of both the past and the present all of which make you look foolish. Anytime you want to discuss the Obama record let me know. Until then the American people got it, why haven't you?
    You blather on about Tuesday’s election; blather on about Obama and the cost of TARP, bloviate that “Obama spent 150 billion of that 350 billion so the total was 500 billion spent. He still has 200 billion that no one know what he has done with it, just like no one knows what he did with the repayment yet he claims he inherited a budget deficit from Bush. “

    One thing is missing on all this blathering/bloviating; guess what it is?

    Why, the subject we were discussing… OF COURSE. The fact is, that I used the site that you seem to think is dead on factual, plus I even linked to where the info is, rather than point and say its over there somewhere, go find it.



    I come into this 121 page thread, again, at post #1186, disputing your assertion that “The economic numbers say differently. “Which was your answer to Moot regarding the bush tax-cuts. Where I supplied a couple of bea links in support of my post.

    In your rebuttal, you say
    ” Not sure exactly what you are looking at because not only did GDP go up after the tax cuts and an increase in GDP increases tax revenue as does the tax cuts increase the number of taxpayers. “


    What I was looking at was,and what I provided a link to was BEA.GOV. What I was pointing at was line 10,on the NIPA table in my BEA.GOV link. The data on the that table clearly shows that economic growth, in real GDP, goes down when taxes are cut. It also shows that not only does economic growth go down ,it shows our national debt goes up . Better skip you next civics class and spend the money on an Rosetta Stone course studying Chinese.


    The next few post you dedicated to trying to change the subject to anything but what we were discussing which culminated into this rambling post that has every talking point that happened to craw thru the ole dome while you were typing.

    In post #1201 you say, “
    I stand by my statement and I suggest you go to bea.gov and learn a few things.
    ” If, as you say, you stand by your statement lets have a look at your bea.gov site and compare it to my bea.gov site, so we can see where the fault lies. Do we have a deal?
    Last edited by Donc; 11-06-10 at 01:50 AM.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    donc,

    I seem to have gotten entangled in the same random walk as you. It seems that "facts" are whatever one wants them to be and if the data doesn't support the "facts" then the data is wrong. I always thought that the data needed to support the "facts" but I guess that I'm not on the right meds.

    I think I'll back away and see if you make any headway at all.

    Enjoy.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    This seems to be about as meaningless statistic as I can find. I just checked the numbers for GDP and I can't find any President since Coolidge where the GDP was lower at the end of their administration than at the beginning. Didn't matter if taxes are raised or lowered. The GDP always goes up, unless there is a repeat of the Great Depression where the GDP went down for the years '29-'34.

    The historical record of the taxes (I hate the term "government revenue") collected by the federal government went up every year. In fact, since 1950, there doesn't seem to be any 8 year period where the federal taxes didn't double. GDP goes up, taxes go up.

    If you say that cutting taxed increases GDP and the growth in GDP makes up for the cut in taxes, that is not evident. The rated of GDP growth does not correlate with tax cuts, at least not individual tax cuts. The things that seem to have the most effect on the rate of growth are those cuts that effect capital investment. Capital accumulation in the hands of individuals is counter productive. The Reagan cuts on individual rates was accompanied by the Accelerated Cost Recovery System which rewarded companies who invested in new equipment. The Clinton tax cut (which you attribute to the GOP) was not a cut in individual rates. It did cut capital gains which, again, had an effect on capital investment. The tax cut under Clinton did not come close to matching the tax increase at the beginning of his administration. The economy grew after them too as did the federal tax.

    And the Obama tax cut on individuals as a percentage of GDP was orders of magnitude larger than the Clinton tax cut on capital gains. If there is any causality that can be gained from this data it's that incenting business to make capital investments IN THE US, is the thing that does the most to improve the economy and employment.
    I posted the Obama tax cuts vs. the Bush tax cuts and you ignored them just like you ignored the question as to why liberals have so much passion for taking money from the American taxpayer? When I get answers to those then I will continue but to go in circles with you again and again is worthless. The American people need the money more than the American Govt.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    donc,

    I seem to have gotten entangled in the same random walk as you. It seems that "facts" are whatever one wants them to be and if the data doesn't support the "facts" then the data is wrong. I always thought that the data needed to support the "facts" but I guess that I'm not on the right meds.

    I think I'll back away and see if you make any headway at all.

    Enjoy.
    Come on in but expect to see a lot of …rabbit hole facts pop up framed as reality.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Come on in but expect to see a lot of …rabbit hole facts pop up framed as reality.
    It is about economic reality something you seem to not understand. Let me remind you, it is the American people's money first before it goes to the American govt. The American people using their own money is what stimulates the economy, not massive debt creation by the govt. Facts seem to get lost in the liberal world of pure fantasy and social engineering.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is about economic reality something you seem to not understand. Let me remind you, it is the American people's money first before it goes to the American govt. The American people using their own money is what stimulates the economy, not massive debt creation by the govt. Facts seem to get lost in the liberal world of pure fantasy and social engineering.

    WELL…. I consider myself to be a part of the population of this great country that you are referring to as the “American People”. I have always taken pride in the fact that somehow I have ALWAYS managed to pay my bills as I go. Never have I had to go to a payday loan store (China?) to float a loan for my excessive spending. Which is, evidently the republican parties MO, every time they get in office as I pointed out in my last post.
    Last edited by Donc; 11-06-10 at 11:58 AM.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    WELL…. I consider myself to be a part of the population of this great country that you are referring to as the “American People”. I have always taken pride in the fact that somehow I have ALWAYS managed to pay my bills as I go. Never have I had to go to a payday loan store (China?) to float a loan for my excessive spending. Which is, evidently the republican parties MO, every time they get in office as I pointed out in my last post.
    Name for me any other President in U.S. history that had trillion dollar deficits and rising unemployment after spending over 800 billion dollars in stimulus? 682 State Legislature positions, 65 Congress Representatives, and 6-8 Senators were elected on Tuesday on the GOP side, that is historic and a mass repudiation of the Obama agenda. Only those on the leftcoast and now parts of the east coast ignore what happened in flyover country and soundly rejected the class warfare card of the Democrats. Keep playing it.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Name for me any other President in U.S. history that had trillion dollar deficits and rising unemployment after spending over 800 billion dollars in stimulus? 682 State Legislature positions, 65 Congress Representatives, and 6-8 Senators were elected on Tuesday on the GOP side, that is historic and a mass repudiation of the Obama agenda. Only those on the leftcoast and now parts of the east coast ignore what happened in flyover country and soundly rejected the class warfare card of the Democrats. Keep playing it.
    Why don’t you start a thread of this subject seeing as you seem to throw it in every thread your involved in.

    Your saying in effect you want to compare past Presidents whole terms, of four, or eight years, with a President that has been in office…22 months? That smacks of …well, typical repug dishonesty.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Why don’t you start a thread of this subject seeing as you seem to throw it in every thread your involved in.

    Your saying in effect you want to compare past Presidents whole terms, of four, or eight years, with a President that has been in office…22 months? That smacks of …well, typical repug dishonesty.
    Deficits are yearly, not cumulative, suggest you learn the difference. Doesn't matter how many years a person is in office when it comes to deficits. What we seem to have here is someone who wants to divert from the reality of the results Obama has generated. Don't blame you but the people spoke on Tuesday, they get it, when will you?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    QUOTE Conservative

    Deficits are yearly, not cumulative, suggest you learn the difference. Doesn't matter how many years a person is in office when it comes to deficits.

    Then your saying that when the defects started popping in 2001 after the first bush tax cuts were what? Coincidence?


    What we seem to have here is someone who wants to divert from the reality of the results Obama has generated. Don't blame you but the people spoke on Tuesday, they get it, when will you?
    Why are you desperately trying to jerk this discussion away from a subject that YOU STARTED which was…tax cuts boost the economy?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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