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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

  1. #1151
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    If consumers are no longer able to purchase goods, then production slackens and the wealthy's income shrinks.....It's better just to have high-income taxes for the wealthy and social spending.
    Let me get this straight. We can get the economy going by taking profits from the producers and giving it to non-producers so that they can then buy products from the producers so that they will have profits.
    Sounds like underpants gnome economic theory.

    Should I point out that dipping a cup into a bathtub and then pouring the cup back into the tub is not going to fill the tub? If anything, you are going to spill some on the ground and the level in the tub will be lower than when you started.
    Last edited by FederalRepublic; 10-31-10 at 01:51 AM.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, that is your argument?
    No, that is your argument. It has mostly been the case that, in cases when there was a Republican President and Democratic Congress, you attribute any failure to Congress and any success to the President. When the President is a Democrat and Republicans control Congress, you claim any success for Congress and any failure to the President. I was trying to point that out that this is not a rational position using irony. I'll not use that device again.



    Obama with a Democrat Congress implementing a far left agenda that has generated these results is the responsibility of both the Congress and the President, just like the deficits during the Bush term were the responsibilities of Bush AND the Congress. Results matter, not rhetoric and the Obama rhetoric doesn’t match the results. None of his policies brought us back from the brink and none of his policies have made things better. Make no mistake these are the policies of Barack Obama and he takes credit for them every day. He is out of touch with reality.
    Given the circumstances he inherited, his results are pretty darn good. I like the health care. It could be better, but is it not a bad start. The stimulus did put the breaks on the crash. Things could have been much worse than they are.



    If you were around during the Reagan years you would know that he went around the Congress to the American people and the American people put pressure on the politicians to pass the Reagan Agenda. Remember Tip O’Neill who said all the Reagan budgets were DOA? I would have given Congress credit if they had kept their word on Gramm Rudman and illegal Immigration but they didn’t. Reagan also wanted the line item veto but that request was rejected as Congress wanted to spend all that money that the Reagan economy generated.
    Strange, from your other posts, I would have guessed that you would have focused on the deficits rather than the economic growth. After all, in absolute terms, the national debt went from $997,855M to $2,857,430M. That is, his administration basically tripled the deficit. So, I guess that you have changed your mind about Obama cutting taxes and increasing deficit spending in order to improve the economy. The unemployment rate hit 9.7% in 1982 which is about where we are now. Over the first 19 months of the Reagan administration (Jan 1981 - Sept 1982), the GDP grew at an annualized rate of 0.2%. Over the first 19 months of the Obama administration, the GDP grew at an annualized rate of 1.7%. Obama seems to have gotten off to a start that is very much like Reagan's (maybe a tiny bit better than Reagan) and there is no reason to expect that it will come out less good.



    Because Obama claims he has created jobs and he brought us back from the brink and that is a lie. He continues to blame Bush and ignores his contribution. His agenda is far left and out of touch with the mainstream. This country wasn’t built on the principles of redistribution of wealth as our economy isn’t a zero sum game where someone wins and someone loses. I contend that Obama and the liberal agenda keep people dependent and thus unable to really reach that American dream.
    It is just your opinion that Obama didn't bring us back from the brink. Since we seem to no longer be on the brink, I'd say that the evidence doesn't support your view that Obama is lying. Your statement that Obama's agenda is far left is laughable. I think you may have spent to much time watching Fox.


    [QUOTE}There is a reason that the gap is widening and that is due to the elimination of incentive and the massive social agenda by the left. I used to believe there are no consequences for failure in the liberal world but now realize what we have today are the consequences of that liberal agenda, dependence. What is keeping poor people poor? Lack of incentive and initiative! There is plenty of room at the top but as long as liberals play the class warfare game nothing is going to change.[/QUOTE]

    Even Warren Buffet (not normally considered a leftist) said, “There’s class warfare, all right,but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” The way they are winning is by spending a ton of money convincing people that all the problems are the fault of the progressives. Then they get large numbers of us to vote against our own self interest and vote in people whose goal is to help the rich get richer.

    Oh, I hope you are not offended that I consider Warren Buffet's opinion on this matter to be of greater value than yours.


    Obama has said a lot of things, unfortunately none of them have been correct. You continue to believe the rhetoric and ignore the results. Results matter not rhetoric. I would have let GM fail but Obama couldn’t let his union leadership fail. GM wouldn’t have gone out of business, but they would have broken the unions.
    Talk about misplaced values. The money we spent saving the jobs of the GM employees was probably the most effecitve money we spent to protect jobs. Letting GM go under would probably have resulted in over 100,000 more people loosing their jobs. Plus, it looks like we are going to make a profit on the deal.


    This is getting long so I'm going to skip the quoting of your stuff. No one is reading this crap anyway.

    The reduction in the rate of decline of the GDP was not the point of the stimulus plan. The point was to cause the GDP to start growing. Besides, your statement is not supported by the data. The (perhaps conservatives should spend more time fact checking the lies that come from Fox rather than continuing to repeat them). The NBER says recession ended in June 2009. In May 2009, Obama was talking about seen the impact of the stimulus already.

    Obama: We're Seeing Results From Stimulus - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

    You say, it couldn't have had an effect that quickly, why not?

    BTW, you cited a paper by The Heritage Foundation, and supported it claims that the tax cuts in the Clinton administration were responsible for all of the budget surpluses (not a position I support). However, as that paper points out, the tax cut was only 0.11% of GDP in the first year 0.22% in the 4th. This tiny cut was attributed for causing the big turn around. The Obama cuts were, as you say, $237B (just for individuals). The GP was $14,119 in 2009 so the Obama cuts were 1.7% of GDP or over 10 times the size of the cuts that The Heritage Foundation says were responsible for the improvement in the economy. Either the Obama cuts were not the "drop in the bucket" that you say they were or The Heritage Foundation article was a bunch of crap. You pick.

    This post is already too long. If you want to continue to discuss any of the other options in your previous post, extrat them.


    BTW, there is one thing in your post that we seem to be in agreement about. History will be the judge of Bush's performance as a President.

  3. #1153
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Zip, not sure it is worth continuing this because I disagree with everything you posted. and to continue this just takes up space as I could respond to this lengthy post with another lengthy post and that would just take up more room.

    You buy what you have been told and seem to agree with anything the progressives tell you. that to me is like a cult following. Results matter, not rhetoric and as I pointed out, Obama in two years has added 3 trillion to the debt, has more unemployed today on a month to month basis than last year, has meagar 2% economic growth, and 4 million more unemployed than he had when he took office, and continues to make statements that are lies.

    Those are the results of Obama so instead of listening to the rhetoric explain why the results are worse after the end of a recession than at any time in U.S. history following a recession?

    Do you really know the role of the Federal Govt. as envisioned by our Founders? There are millions of progressives that don't and it appears that you are one of them. Go ahead and vote for progressives and give Obama another two years with a Democrat Congress so that he can continue to spout the lies about what he has done. Why is it a progressive never admits when wrong?

    There is so much in your post that is wrong but nothing is going to change your mind nor is anything you say going to change mine. The facts from non partisan sites arein my favor as are the economic policy results generated by Reagan and Bush compared to Obama. We cannot afford more of that empty suit in the WH and his far left economic agenda. I look at the supporters of the Obama agenda and that tells it all even if I didn't have the results.

    I don't agree with a word of what you posted but rather than post another novel most of which you ignored I will say that we will just have to agree to disagree. There is no use dealing with someone who believes as you do and who continues to buy rhetoric but only rhetoric from those who support your point of view. There are a lot of non partisan sites where you could verify the rhetoric you are being given but you choose to continue to buy the rhetoric. I prefer trusting but verifying and when I verify the Obama rhetoric with the results there is a major disconnect.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    For those that really care here is the difference between the Obama and Bush tax cuts. Now you tell me which one is going to have or had the biggest affect on you?

    Obama Tax cuts

    Total: $237 billion

    • $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
    • $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
    • $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
    • $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
    • $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
    • $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
    • $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
    • $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
    • $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

    Bush Tax cuts

    Between 2001 and 2003, the Bush administration instituted a federal tax cut for all taxpayers. Among other changes, the lowest income tax rate was lowered from 15% to 10%, the 27% rate went to 25%, the 30% rate went to 28%, the 35% rate went to 33%, and the top marginal tax rate went from 39.6% to 35%.[3] In addition, the child tax credit went from $500 to $1000, and the "marriage penalty" was reduced. Since the cuts were implemented as part of the annual congressional budget resolution, which protected the bill from filibusters, numerous amendments, and more than 20 hours of debate, it had to include a sunset clause. Unless congress passes legislation making the tax cuts permanent, they will expire in 2011.
    Last edited by Conservative; 10-31-10 at 11:13 AM.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The New Deal was a complete break with both the jurisprudence up to that time and the limits on the federal government

    most of our problems today come from the framework established by the ND
    squire, as an educated person you should be able to post more factually than that garbage. let's go to dictionary.com and look up jurisprudence:
    ju·ris·pru·dence ... –noun
    1. the science or philosophy of law.
    2. a body or system of laws.
    3. a department of law: medical jurisprudence.
    4. Civil Law . decisions of courts, esp. of reviewing tribunals
    a complete break with the system of laws you insist. but when searching for what is found illegal about the new deal we find nothing

    you may not like the new deal, and the American society which resulted, but to have benefitted from a legal education and assert that the new deal broke our system of laws is, at best, misrepresentation of the facts
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, if it was true they were done earlier then exactly what did Bush do to generate more of them? President Bush did not create the CRA, that was done by Carter and strengthened by Clinton. President Bush tried to regulate Fannie and Freddie back in 2005-2006 but was stopped by Congress. Read what Barney Franks and Chris Dodd said about the request. I agree that Bush was President but again what did he do to promote the sub prime loans that already existed. It would have been illegal to limit loans without Congressional support. You seem interesting in blaming Bush for some reason. I am still waiting for what Bush did to hurt you or your family?
    You just jump around all over the place. When President Bush was in charge every problem was due to congress. Now every problem is due to President Obama

    For someone who uses the word rhederict a lot you sure do spew a lot of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am still waiting for what Bush did to hurt you or your family
    Like a dog on a bone. Why not answer some of my earlier questions first. We can adress that quote soon enough.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Zip, not sure it is worth continuing this because I disagree with everything you posted. and to continue this just takes up space as I could respond to this lengthy post with another lengthy post and that would just take up more room.
    Conservative, not sure it is worth continuing this because I disagree with everything you posted. and to continue this just takes up space as I could respond to this lengthy post with another lengthy post and that would just take up more room.


    You buy what you have been told and seem to agree with anything the progressives tell you. that to me is like a cult following. Results matter, not rhetoric and as I pointed out, Obama in two years has added 3 trillion to the debt, has more unemployed today on a month to month basis than last year, has meagar 2% economic growth, and 4 million more unemployed than he had when he took office, and continues to make statements that are lies.

    Those are the results of Obama so instead of listening to the rhetoric explain why the results are worse after the end of a recession than at any time in U.S. history following a recession?
    You buy what you have been told and seem to agree with anything the conservatives tell you. that to me is like a cult following. Results matter, not rhetoric and as I pointed out, Obama in two years has added 3 trillion to the debt, has more unemployed today on a month to month basis than last year, has meagar 2% economic growth, and 4 million more unemployed than he had when he took office, and continues to make statements that are true.

    Those are the results of Obama so instead of listening to the rhetoric, explain why the results are no worse after the end of a recession than at any time in U.S. history following a recession?

    Do you really know the role of the Federal Govt. as envisioned by our Founders? There are millions of progressives that don't and it appears that you are one of them. Go ahead and vote for progressives and give Obama another two years with a Democrat Congress so that he can continue to spout the lies about what he has done. Why is it a progressive never admits when wrong?
    Do you really know the role of the Federal Govt. as envisioned by our Founders? There are millions of conservatives that don't and it appears that you are one of them. Go ahead and vote for conservatives and deny Obama another two years with a Democrat Congress so that he can't continue to spout the truth about what he has done. Why is it a conservative never admits when wrong?

    There is so much in your post that is wrong but nothing is going to change your mind nor is anything you say going to change mine. The facts from non partisan sites arein my favor as are the economic policy results generated by Reagan and Bush compared to Obama. We cannot afford more of that empty suit in the WH and his far left economic agenda. I look at the supporters of the Obama agenda and that tells it all even if I didn't have the results.
    There is so much in your post that is wrong but nothing is going to change your mind nor is anything you say going to change mine. The facts from non partisan sites are in my favor as are the economic policy results generated by Reagan and Bush compared to Obama. We can afford more of that suit in the WH and his centralist economic agenda. I look at the supporters of the Fox agenda and that tells it all even if I didn't have the results.

    I don't agree with a word of what you posted but rather than post another novel most of which you ignored I will say that we will just have to agree to disagree. There is no use dealing with someone who believes as you do and who continues to buy rhetoric but only rhetoric from those who support your point of view. There are a lot of non partisan sites where you could verify the rhetoric you are being given but you choose to continue to buy the rhetoric. I prefer trusting but verifying and when I verify the Obama rhetoric with the results there is a major disconnect.
    I don't agree with a word of what you posted but rather than post another novel, most of which you will ignore, I will say that we will just have to agree to disagree. There is no use dealing with someone who believes as you do and who continues to buy rhetoric but only rhetoric from those who support your point of view. There are a lot of non partisan sites where you could verify the rhetoric you are being given but you choose to continue to buy the rhetoric. I prefer trusting but verifying and when I verify the Obama rhetoric with the results it is easy to verify.

    It's sure easier to rebut a post that contains nothing but a challenge to the other person's open-mindedness. I dare say that I'm less dogmatic than you.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    You just jump around all over the place. When President Bush was in charge every problem was due to congress. Now every problem is due to President Obama

    For someone who uses the word rhederict a lot you sure do spew a lot of it.


    Like a dog on a bone. Why not answer some of my earlier questions first. We can adress that quote soon enough.
    When Bush was in charge he had a Democrat Senate in 2001-2002 and a Democrat Congress in 2007-2008. From 2003-2007 there were 52 weeks of economic growth and job creation. Democrats took control and the results took a nose dive and the question is why? You blame Bush for the inability of Democrats to enact legislation as it appears they were more interested in regaining the WH than doing the will of the people.

    Today, Obama has total control of the Govt. Democrat Congress, Democrat in the WH. You buy the Obama rhetoric whereas I point to the Obama results. What policy did Obama implement to bring us "back from the bring?" Why are the economic results today worse than they were last year? What is the policy going forward that will improve the economy, pro private sector or pro pubic sector? Look, I know the answer but doubt you will ever give the answer. It is hard for a liberal to admit when wrong and that is the arrogance that keeps making the same mistakes over and over again.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    Conservative, not sure it is worth continuing this because I disagree with everything you posted. and to continue this just takes up space as I could respond to this lengthy post with another lengthy post and that would just take up more room.




    You buy what you have been told and seem to agree with anything the conservatives tell you. that to me is like a cult following. Results matter, not rhetoric and as I pointed out, Obama in two years has added 3 trillion to the debt, has more unemployed today on a month to month basis than last year, has meagar 2% economic growth, and 4 million more unemployed than he had when he took office, and continues to make statements that are true.

    Those are the results of Obama so instead of listening to the rhetoric, explain why the results are no worse after the end of a recession than at any time in U.S. history following a recession?



    Do you really know the role of the Federal Govt. as envisioned by our Founders? There are millions of conservatives that don't and it appears that you are one of them. Go ahead and vote for conservatives and deny Obama another two years with a Democrat Congress so that he can't continue to spout the truth about what he has done. Why is it a conservative never admits when wrong?



    There is so much in your post that is wrong but nothing is going to change your mind nor is anything you say going to change mine. The facts from non partisan sites are in my favor as are the economic policy results generated by Reagan and Bush compared to Obama. We can afford more of that suit in the WH and his centralist economic agenda. I look at the supporters of the Fox agenda and that tells it all even if I didn't have the results.



    I don't agree with a word of what you posted but rather than post another novel, most of which you will ignore, I will say that we will just have to agree to disagree. There is no use dealing with someone who believes as you do and who continues to buy rhetoric but only rhetoric from those who support your point of view. There are a lot of non partisan sites where you could verify the rhetoric you are being given but you choose to continue to buy the rhetoric. I prefer trusting but verifying and when I verify the Obama rhetoric with the results it is easy to verify.

    It's sure easier to rebut a post that contains nothing but a challenge to the other person's open-mindedness. I dare say that I'm less dogmatic than you.
    It took a lot of time to do what you just did that refuted absolutely nothing. That is what liberals do when they cannot defend their actual results. You absolutely deserve Barack Obama but the majority in this country do not. We will see on Tuesday which one of us is correct. Does rhetoric always trump results? In the liberal world the answer is yes.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    squire, as an educated person you should be able to post more factually than that garbage. let's go to dictionary.com and look up jurisprudence:


    a complete break with the system of laws you insist. but when searching for what is found illegal about the new deal we find nothing

    you may not like the new deal, and the American society which resulted, but to have benefitted from a legal education and assert that the new deal broke our system of laws is, at best, misrepresentation of the facts
    you libs made a big deal about the Roberts court not respecting "stare decisis"

    tell us what the first several decisions on the New Deal held.

    Tell me what part of the constitution authorized social security

    explain the schechter poultry case and its precedent

    thanks



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