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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    One of MANY; not stopping Freddie Mac from allowing Lier Loans. It is true that they COULD do them earlier but it was not to the degree that it was done in 2000 - 2006. In that time it went from something that could happen to exagerated rate. It cascaded into the secondary secure market where the owners of those securities had no idea what they had. President Bush frequently pointed to the Housing market as a reason why the economy was strong. As those lier loans built to an unsustainable point the bubble popped. President Bush was in charge during that time. Had he acted to limit those loans when they were being given out in increasingly higher volumes we could have avoided the housing crisis that will hurt this economy for another decade.
    Ok, if it was true they were done earlier then exactly what did Bush do to generate more of them? President Bush did not create the CRA, that was done by Carter and strengthened by Clinton. President Bush tried to regulate Fannie and Freddie back in 2005-2006 but was stopped by Congress. Read what Barney Franks and Chris Dodd said about the request. I agree that Bush was President but again what did he do to promote the sub prime loans that already existed. It would have been illegal to limit loans without Congressional support. You seem interesting in blaming Bush for some reason. I am still waiting for what Bush did to hurt you or your family?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    They invest it. As economically as they can.

    Problem is, what is personally economical is not always in the best interest of overall economic growth. Venture capitalism forms only a small part of our economy, because its gain is uncertain. Housing, on the other hand, forms a large part of the economy because we are a telecommuting culture and people 'require' habitation. Given a choice between the two, an investor would pick housing. As capitalism would have it, they enjoy that choice. One of the principles behind wealth accumulation is that the economy is predictable enough you can consistently calculate and depend on profitable developments. When something's gain is uncertain, nobody wants to touch it. That means even if an industry is important to the overall operation of the economy, like trains and airlines, nobody wants to spend any of their income on its shares.

    Still, we need trains and the airlines. The wealthy do too, to move their goods, products, and information; they just can't reconcile spending large portions of their capital on a losing deal. The government does stuff like that.

    Which it needs 'their' money for.



    The New Deal was one of a series of developments in the formation of the modern economy, events that stretched back centuries.
    There is more than enough money to operate the Federal Govt. just not to do the social engineering that liberals want done. People keeping more of their money need less social engineering. The Federal Govt. is involved in areas that are state responsibilities not Federal responsibilities and you are allowing that to happen.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    They invest it. As economically as they can.

    Problem is, what is personally economical is not always in the best interest of overall economic growth. Venture capitalism forms only a small part of our economy, because its gain is uncertain. Housing, on the other hand, forms a large part of the economy because we are a telecommuting culture and people 'require' habitation. Given a choice between the two, an investor would pick housing. As capitalism would have it, they enjoy that choice. One of the principles behind wealth accumulation is that the economy is predictable enough you can consistently calculate and depend on profitable developments. When something's gain is uncertain, nobody wants to touch it. That means even if an industry is important to the overall operation of the economy, like trains and airlines, nobody wants to spend any of their income on its shares.

    Still, we need trains and the airlines. The wealthy do too, to move their goods, products, and information; they just can't reconcile spending large portions of their capital on a losing deal. The government does stuff like that.

    Which it needs 'their' money for.

    Instead of government, we could have the wealthy come together and agree how much of their incomes will be apportioned to bail outs, military, welfare, etc, but it would be a generally ineffective system.



    The New Deal was one of a series of developments in the formation of the modern economy, events that stretched back centuries.
    The New Deal was a complete break with both the jurisprudence up to that time and the limits on the federal government

    most of our problems today come from the framework established by the ND



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There is more than enough money to operate the Federal Govt. just not to do the social engineering that liberals want done. People keeping more of their money need less social engineering. The Federal Govt. is involved in areas that are state responsibilities not Federal responsibilities and you are allowing that to happen.
    One of the things that makes our economy so vigorous is its ability to exploit resources over a wide geographic distribution. States enjoy authority over a very limited geographic distribution, and consequently, support much more limited economic development. People don't want limited economic development, so the federal government is shouldered with the burden. It has the military, interstate authority, and the ability to make treaties with foreign powers. Exactly what an ambitious businessman wants in the 20-21st centuries.

    It has little to do with social engineering or liberals, which is why governments have been large and expensive under every post-WWII conservative Congress and presidential Administration.


    The New Deal was a complete break with both the jurisprudence up to that time and the limits on the federal government

    most of our problems today come from the framework established by the ND
    The New Deal was mostly an aid, in the short and especially the long term.

    In American political and economic history, it was part of a trend that 'started' with the 14th Amendment. In world history, both these were parts of a larger trend toward centralized governments and mixed economies.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-31-10 at 12:22 AM.
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    The New Deal violated the constitution in numerous ways. We'd been much better off if it had been stricken as violating the tenth amendment



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    One of the things that makes our economy so vigorous is its ability to exploit resources over a wide geographic distribution. States enjoy authority over a very limited geographic distribution, and consequently, support much more limited economic development. People don't want limited economic development, so the federal government is shouldered with the burden. It has the military, interstate authority, and the ability to make treaties with foreign powers. Exactly what an ambitious businessman wants in the 20-21st centuries.

    It has little to do with social engineering or liberals, which is why governments have been large and expensive under every post-WWII conservative Congress and presidential Administration.



    The New Deal was mostly an aid, in the short and especially the long term.

    In American political and economic history, it was part of a trend that 'started' with the 14th Amendment. In world history, both these were parts of a larger trend toward centralized governments and mixed economies.
    Obviously you have never looked at the budget of the United States to see where the money is allocated. Suggest you go to the U.S. Treasury Site and see just how much goes to social spending and entitlements vs. economic activity. You are going to be shocked.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obviously you have never looked at the budget of the United States to see where the money is allocated. Suggest you go to the U.S. Treasury Site and see just how much goes to social spending and entitlements vs. economic activity. You are going to be shocked.
    Social spending and entitlements are economic activity. Empowering poverty-stricken consumers is necessary to prolong economic growth.

    The New Deal violated the constitution in numerous ways. We'd been much better off if it had been stricken as violating the tenth amendment
    Constitutionality is determined not just by text, but by the nuances of the situations the text refers to. I don't believe there is one statement in the U.S. Constitution that is exercised as an absolute.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-31-10 at 12:36 AM.
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Social spending and entitlements are economic activity. Empowering poverty-stricken consumers is necessary to prolong economic growth.



    Constitutionality is determined not just by text, but by the nuances of the situations the text refers to.
    empowering?

    giving them other peoples' money only addicts them to handouts and prevents them from improving their lot



  9. #1149
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    empowering?

    giving them other peoples' money only addicts them to handouts and prevents them from improving their lot
    If consumers are no longer able to purchase goods, then production slackens and the wealthy's income shrinks. Both poverty and wealth aggregate exponentially, by which I mean, the rate of acceleration increases the lower or higher you go on the income bracket. Once a consumer is at the threshold of poverty, their chances of bounding back shrink dramatically. Similarly, once a capitalist obtains a large sum of wealth, his chances of becoming poor shrink dramatically.

    Of course, the wealthy can just hammer the poor, have no taxes, and then live off of what they've gained once their businesses start declining, but that's when we get a situation like the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. It's better just to have high-income taxes for the wealthy and social spending.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-31-10 at 12:44 AM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Social spending and entitlements are economic activity. Empowering poverty-stricken consumers is necessary to prolong economic growth.



    Constitutionality is determined not just by text, but by the nuances of the situations the text refers to. I don't believe there is one statement in the U.S. Constitution that is exercised as an absolute.
    That certainly is the liberal interpretation although promoting the General Welfare vs. Providing the General welfare seems to have a different meaning for me. I don't think it was ever intended by our Founders to PROVIDE welfare for all those social spending and entitlements. That should be left to the states, not the Federal govt.

    Last post of the night. Have a good one, enjoyed the discussion tonight.
    Last edited by Conservative; 10-31-10 at 12:43 AM.

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