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Thread: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    At a procedural level, jealousy is not a factor.
    Then why do you care what someone else or some other business makes in profits or income?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It isn't the financial crisis that is scaring business, it is Obama policies that are scaring business. You ought to know that. I am still waiting for what policies Bush implemented that hurt your business or your family?
    I dont mind getting to that but first. No, I work with small businesses. They are shell shocked. Those that did not close down are scared. Scared about what happened in 2008. Small and med size businesses are starting to grow again, slowly, but it will take another year or two before we see much change. We also have about a 1/3 chance of a double dip, not my work but I saw the data and I agree with it.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    I dont mind getting to that but first. No, I work with small businesses. They are shell shocked. Those that did not close down are scared. Scared about what happened in 2008. Small and med size businesses are starting to grow again, slowly, but it will take another year or two before we see much change. We also have about a 1/3 chance of a double dip, not my work but I saw the data and I agree with it.
    What happened in 2008 wasn't due to anything that Bush did even though he gets the blame. If you think it was Bush's fault then tell me what Bush did? I know of no small business that doesn't have access to funds for borrowing but what they lack now are customers. 16 million unemployed Americans, 4 million more than when Obama took office and he is doing nothing to promote private business hiring and in fact is going to make it more expensive.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What happened in 2008 wasn't due to anything that Bush did even though he gets the blame.
    I had to pinch myself a few times to make sure I read that right. So President Bush had nothing to do with the economic disaster of 2008 but you blame President Obama for it when he was not even in office. Or at least that he has not fixed all of the economic issues after one year.

    Can I have some of what your smoke'n.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then why do you care what someone else or some other business makes in profits or income?
    In Pre-Industrial Revolution societies, economic units are mostly small and local. There is a small, shipping based global economy driven by novelty items, managed by small businesses and, in the case of a major seafaring power/economic giant like Great Britain, the East India Trading Company. The East India Trading Company is a fist of the British Empire, and although ostensibly a private business, was created and maintained by the government in order to secure economic dominance in the sea trade -- no string of businesses in, say, France can compete with the administrative power of a corporation. Such a large business would not be able to exist otherwise; there are no banks in the private sector that are willing to foot its loans or bail it out in its bad seasons. Only the government's revenue can do it. Also, no other institution can open its trade outlets the same way the government can (say, by subduing the nations of Asia). Naturally, the British government is entitled to a share of the Trading Company's wealth, which it obtains directly and indirectly.

    In post-Industrial, modern economies, pretty much all corporations and small businesses -- the entire economy, really -- are in the position of the East India Trading Company. Businesses are only so large and successful as they become because the government is promoting infrastructure, order, and trade that enables a high level of growth. That takes money (in the U.S.'s case, the military is an important part of our economic growth), and most of the money belongs to the wealthy and to large businesses -- they have exponentially higher incomes and profits.

    So, they get taxed a lot. And the money they are taxed goes to support the economic environment that makes their success possible.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-30-10 at 11:29 PM.
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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    I had to pinch myself a few times to make sure I read that right. So President Bush had nothing to do with the economic disaster of 2008 but you blame President Obama for it when he was not even in office. Or at least that he has not fixed all of the economic issues after one year.

    Can I have some of what your smoke'n.
    Sure, you can have what I am smoking when you tell me what policy Bush implemented that caused the problem?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    In Pre-Industrial Revolution societies, economic units are mostly small and local. There is a small, shipping based global economy driven by novelty items, managed by small businesses and, in the case of a major seafaring power/economic giant like Great Britain, the East India Trading Company. The East India Trading Company is one of the left fist of the British Empire, and although ostensibly a private business, was created and maintained by the government in order to secure economic dominance over foreign ventures. Such a large business would not be able to exist otherwise; there are no banks in the private sector that are willing to foot its loans or bad seasons. Only the government's revenue can do it. Also, no other institution can open its trade outlets the same way the government can (say, by subduing the nations of Asia). Naturally, the British government is entitled to a share of the Trading Company's wealth, which it obtains directly and indirectly.

    In post-Industrial, modern economies, pretty much all corporations and small businesses -- the entire economy, really -- are in the position of the East India Trading Company. Businesses are only so large and successful as they become because the government is promoting infrastructure, order, and trade that enables a high level of growth. That takes money (in the U.S.'s case, the military is an important part of our economic growth), and most of the money belongs to the wealthy and to businesses.

    So, they get taxed a lot.
    That doesn't answer the question. Why do YOU care how much someone else or some business makes in income or profits? What do those people do with the money?

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That doesn't answer the question. Why do YOU care how much someone else or some business makes in income or profits? What do those people do with the money?
    you won't get an honest answer in most times you ask a question like this. so many claim they push for massive tax hikes for some greater good yet its envy that motivates it/ America became the greatest nation in the world before we had all these idiotic taxes that were needed (and I use "needed" rather "liberally") only after the unconstitutional new deal welfare programs were created



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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sure, you can have what I am smoking when you tell me what policy Bush implemented that caused the problem?
    One of MANY; not stopping Freddie Mac from allowing Lier Loans. It is true that they COULD do them earlier but it was not to the degree that it was done in 2000 - 2006. In that time it went from something that could happen to exagerated rate. It cascaded into the secondary secure market where the owners of those securities had no idea what they had. President Bush frequently pointed to the Housing market as a reason why the economy was strong. As those lier loans built to an unsustainable point the bubble popped. President Bush was in charge during that time. Had he acted to limit those loans when they were being given out in increasingly higher volumes we could have avoided the housing crisis that will hurt this economy for another decade.

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    Re: Census finds record gap between rich and poor

    That doesn't answer the question. Why do YOU care how much someone else or some business makes in income or profits? What do those people do with the money?
    They invest it. As economically as they can.

    Problem is, what is personally economical is not always in the best interest of overall economic growth. Venture capitalism forms only a small part of our economy, because its gain is uncertain. Housing, on the other hand, forms a large part of the economy because we are a telecommuting culture and people 'require' habitation. Given a choice between the two, an investor would pick housing. As capitalism would have it, they enjoy that choice. One of the principles behind wealth accumulation is that the economy is predictable enough you can consistently calculate and depend on profitable developments. When something's gain is uncertain, nobody wants to touch it.

    That's also why, even if an industry is important to the overall operation of the economy, like trains and airlines, nobody wants to spend any of their income on its shares.

    Still, we need trains and the airlines. The wealthy do too, to move their goods, products, and information; they just can't reconcile spending large portions of their capital on a losing deal. The government does stuff like that.

    Which it needs 'their' money for.

    Instead of government, we could have the wealthy come together and agree how much of their incomes will be apportioned to bail outs, military, welfare, etc, but it would be a generally ineffective system.

    you won't get an honest answer in most times you ask a question like this. so many claim they push for massive tax hikes for some greater good yet its envy that motivates it/ America became the greatest nation in the world before we had all these idiotic taxes that were needed (and I use "needed" rather "liberally") only after the unconstitutional new deal welfare programs were created
    The New Deal was one of a series of developments in the formation of the modern economy, events that stretched back centuries.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 10-31-10 at 12:09 AM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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