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Thread: Transgender senior can't be king

  1. #261
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Fascinating. As usual, in situations like these, the level of lack of understanding of this issue is massive. I treat people with GID. It happens to be a developing specialty area of mine. I would be happy to answer any legitimate questions about the issue. For those of you who reject the concept, as usual, you are uneducated on the topic, and unless you want to be educated, don't bother responding.
    I believe Tucker already asked us twice to debate the issue not the people CC.
    Last edited by texmaster; 09-28-10 at 11:19 PM.
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Just because a dude has a mental condition that makes him think he's a chick, it doesn't change the fact that he's a dude.

    If a person had a mental condition that made them act like/ think they're a monkey, would we give them bananas and put them in a cage in the zoo?

    Maybe I'm a nitpicking semantic purist, but if you have a penis and completely lack a vagina, you are a male, to be referred to as he, himself, and him. And if you have a vagina, but completely lack a penis, you can't be called "king", because "king" describes males.

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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Maybe I'm a nitpicking semantic purist, but if you have a penis and completely lack a vagina, you are a male, to be referred to as he, himself, and him. And if you have a vagina, but completely lack a penis, you can't be called "king", because "king" describes males.
    King also describes a person with absolute authority, or at least with a dream, and neither of which apply to the homecoming doovy, and the person was known by male pronouns, wore male clothing, and was viewed as male.
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  4. #264
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    King also describes a person with absolute authority, or at least with a dream, and neither of which apply to the homecoming doovy, and the person was known by male pronouns, wore male clothing, and was viewed as male.
    "Homecoming king" is a perfectly semantically sound term, as it is a term in itself with its own definition separate from the latter word.

    It doesn't matter if she wears male clothing and is referred to as male. I could run around stark naked and be referred to as a chimpanzee, but it wouldn't make me one. She'll be male soon enough, when she undergoes the sex change operation.

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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Again the word sex has not changed at all in any way shape or form. You are trying to parse the wording to mean something it does not. Nor have you provided a single defintion that supports your claim

    Until you can explain how it is different it is not an argument.

    Gender is tied to sex directly in each of the definitions provided by myself and others.

    More definitions:

    a. The condition of being female or male; sex.

    20; often the classification correlates in part with sex or animateness.
    Ah. So, you don't like the definition you posted now, eh? Gotta find a different one to fit your agenda?

    Fact is, in social sciences, it refers to gender roles as related to the society in which one lives.

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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    By all means tell me of any other mental illness where it is suggested that a person have any of his or her body parts turned inside out because their disorder tells them they should.
    Since transexualism in and of itself is NOT a mental disorder, your point is not only irrelevant, but is a non-sequitur.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Ok, to continue with what I was saying. The causes of transexualism are not completely known. This is not an issue that has been studied, extensively. However, recently, there have been studies using MRI's and exploring the limbic system that have demonstrated some potential causality. Both genetics and biology have been considered as links.

    Much of the information regarding the studies done on the causes of transsexualism are highly technical in nature. I will attempt to explain them in layman's terms"

    A study done in 2000 examined the part of the brain that identifies gender identity... the central subdivision of the bed-nucleus of the stria terminalis or BSTc for short. They examined the somatostatin (SOM), a hormone, neurons. What they found was this. Males have 3-4 times the amount of SOM neurons than females do. This is regardless of sexual orientation; homosexual males were similar to males just as homosexual females were similar to females. However, when examining the SOM neurons of transsexuals, they found that FTM (females who claimed to be male) SOM neurons were in the MALE range while MTF (males who claimed to be females) SOM neurons were in the FEMALE range. They examined people who had hormone treatment, who had not, who had sex reassignment surgery, and who had not. Didn't matter. The SOM neuron levels remained the same. Also irrelevant was when the individual indicated their transsexualism. This gives indication that whatever the cause, it occurs while the individual develops in the womb.

    Link to the actual study and links to other information used:

    Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus -- Kruijver et al. 85 (5): 2034 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
    Male to Female Transsexual Individuals have Female Neuron Numbers in the Central Subdivision of the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis - Tara's Transgender Resources


    There also may be a DNA link to transsexualism. In a 2008 study, researchers discovered that MTF transsexuals have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene which causes weaker testosterone signals... similar to that of females.

    Link to that information:

    BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

    The first study that I posted has been reproduced and is being used to explore the answers to a numbers of questions about human sexual development.

    If we are talking about biological gender development, we all know that an XX person is female and an XY person is male. However, what this creates is the anatomical differences between males and females. It does NOT impact the brain and hormone level development. It is theorized that in transsexuals, hormone surges, often occurring in the 3rd month of pregnancy occur in the opposite fashion as would typically occur. An XX fetus might get the hormonal surge, whereas an XY might not. This can account for the differences in the BSTc SOM receptors. There is some discussion that this may be caused by hormones or other medications ingested during pregnancy, such as DES, but there is no conclusive evidence surrounding this. What is clear is that a transsexual's brain-hormonal pathways operate similar to the sex opposite to what they are anatomically.

    Things to consider when discussing transsexualism. Firstly, though there is a strong connection between the differentiation in BSTc SOM neurons and gender identity, the mechanisms that create gender are complex and not completely understood; the brain is still a very complicated organ.

    Secondly, cases of children who may have had some genital abnormality at birth, and were "reassigned" to the opposite sex for cosmetic reasons at that time, retained their chromosomal identity. In other words, if a boy was born without a penis, but with testicles, and he was castrated a brought up as a girl, he would retain his gender identity and STILL identify as a boy. A study done with children like this found that all eventually presented as male, not female as they were raised. This gives credence to the idea that transsexualism is NOT socially or environmentally driven.

    Hopkins research shows nature, not nurture, determines gender

    Thirdly, it has been found that true transsexual people cannot be "cured" though psychiatry or psychology. This is NOT a mental disorder, but an inconsistency between brain-hormonal functioning/structure and chromosomal anatomy.

    Further links that provided information for this post:

    http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Resea...s/etiology.pdf
    Transsexuality
    Transsexualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Please feel free to ask any questions. This is just an overview as there is more information.

    In my post, tomorrow, I will discuss treatment for GID and how it relates to transsexualism. There is a pretty clear set of guidelines, and as someone who actively treats folks with GID, I will identify them both from a clinical position and from an experiential position.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 09-29-10 at 05:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #268
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Originally Posted by Demon of Light
    By all means tell me of any other mental illness where it is suggested that a person have any of his or her body parts turned inside out because their disorder tells them they should.
    Here's one. Body Integrity Identity Disorder...a desire to amputate one's own body parts or to become a paraplegic. Very rare. Very real:

    BIID is attracting the attention of researchers who suspect that the condition may be related to other body image disorders—including anorexia, body dysmorphic disorder, and gender identity disorder—that at first glance may seem entirely psychological, but may be linked to physical differences in the brain. "In studying the hinterland between neurology and psychology, we can tell not just about people with conditions themselves, but how all our brains work," says Paul McGeoch, a neurologist at the University of San Diego who is currently doing brain scans on people with BIID. McGeoch's research may help answer the fundamental question: is BIID a mental illness or a hard-wired identity?
    BIID: Why Sufferers Amputate Their Own Limbs - Newsweek
    Last edited by MaggieD; 09-29-10 at 10:17 AM.
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  9. #269
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    I was just reading through this thread again when I was reminded of something from an Art History study I did in college. Took me a second to find a source to back it up. It looks like everyone arguing that a king is male by definition has just lost the battle.

    Kings were not only males, and unlike in modern monarchies, the ruler of ancient Egypt, whether male or female, was always called a king. In fact, Egypt had some very noteworthy female rulers such as Hatshepsut and others.
    As far back as Ancient Egypt, there has been precedent for female kings.

    Egypt: The Kings (Pharaohs) of Ancient Egypt

    Game. Set. Match.
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  10. #270
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    Re: Transgender senior can't be king

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    I was just reading through this thread again when I was reminded of something from an Art History study I did in college. Took me a second to find a source to back it up. It looks like everyone arguing that a king is male by definition has just lost the battle.



    As far back as Ancient Egypt, there has been precedent for female kings.

    Egypt: The Kings (Pharaohs) of Ancient Egypt

    Game. Set. Match.
    except for the fact that this highschool isn't located in ancient Egypt. The principal, who happens to run the school, made the rules "vote for a boy for king, girl for queen". and since according to the official records this person is a girl, he/she/it was not eligible to be king.
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