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Thread: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

  1. #31
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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What would the reforms you envision look like? I mean we had one go of it trying to reform campaign finance that is a disaster in free speech rights.
    I would want popular initiatives on a federal level.

    How I envision such an initiative would work is that the people can pass federal laws. In order for a federal law to get passed via referendum, the proposal would have to

    1) get a 50%+1 majority of votes nationwide
    2) get a 50%+1 majority within a number of states equal to 50%+1 in the Union (currently 26 states).

    So with this "double majority" system, proposed laws can get passed by the people directly and bypass Congress.

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I would want popular initiatives on a federal level.

    How I envision such an initiative would work is that the people can pass federal laws. In order for a federal law to get passed via referendum, the proposal would have to

    1) get a 50%+1 majority of votes nationwide
    2) get a 50%+1 majority within a number of states equal to 50%+1 in the Union (currently 26 states).

    So with this "double majority" system, proposed laws can get passed by the people directly and bypass Congress.
    so you want a direct democracy?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #33
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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    so you want a direct democracy?
    Not solely a direct democracy but rather a check that involves direct democracy. After all, the 10th Amendment says that powers not given to the federal government are reserved to the states and to the people. In my view, that's a Constitutional justification for it.

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Am I reading this right? Some on the far right are complaining that now congress isn't doing enough? Not long ago they were complaining they were doing too much. I guess they just can't be satsified.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Of course they are. Just like Republicians were with Obama and Democrats the last two elections crying that they were only getting votes because of lack of education on the issues and having to rely solely on campaign spin.

    Political ignorance of voters is what effects every election. This is exactly why the majority power switches parties every other election. If voters were educated on political issue we would see a more consistant percentage control year over year ( I would assume something like 60% R and 40% D) instead of the drastic power flip flops.
    no, insulting voters is a LOSER

    obama was all about hope and change, he was sposed to be post partisan

    he promised no red america, no blue, only a united america

    now, all that remains to him and his is SMEAR---the mean, old gop won't play

    once more, why is it that leadership can't say whether it will or won't do the bush cuts, whether the cuts will be extended to the middle class or all, whether this congress will act or the next...

    leadership needs to own up, it will be held accountable for its comprehensive failures 5 weeks from tomorrow

    obama has it backwards---washington knows least

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    obama has it backwards---washington knows least
    Obama doesn't control procedures in the House nor in the Senate.

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I would want popular initiatives on a federal level.

    How I envision such an initiative would work is that the people can pass federal laws. In order for a federal law to get passed via referendum, the proposal would have to

    1) get a 50%+1 majority of votes nationwide
    2) get a 50%+1 majority within a number of states equal to 50%+1 in the Union (currently 26 states).

    So with this "double majority" system, proposed laws can get passed by the people directly and bypass Congress.
    that's actually a really good idea, but it's worthless, there's no movement anywhere (except in our imaginations)

    after the republicans thoroughly wasted the democrats in the civil war, 1861-65, the federal govt, characterized by a very strong congress and a relatively weak chief exec (the presidency would not rise near its modern condition till teddy) was all but OWNED by the gop

    between lincoln and woodrow wilson, 52 years, there is ONE blue prez, grover cleveland, gov of ny, who did, it is true, win the white house twice

    the point is---under one party rule the gop did get kinda grimy (the grant cabinet comes to mind)

    but worse, the backroom nature of unchecked power, the control of the party over the people---that'd be best personified by james g blaine, speaker of the house from maine

    the point, here, is---opposition to gop machinery came not from the dems, wedged in in the still racist and extremely resentful south

    no, principled opposition to the corruption that accompanies one party rule came from within the party of lincoln itself

    reformist republicans, historically they're known by several rather obscure names, but the best is mugwump

    indeed, mugwump disgust with blaine's insider-ism led to the election of cleveland in 84

    teddy was a mugwump, tho he backed blaine in 84, teddy only became president by accident when mckinley was assassinated in buffalo in 1901

    as chief police commissioner in nyc teddy cleaned up corruption in a filthy dept and became immensely, dangerously popular

    as superstar gub of ny he went after the party, broke the machine, ended the spoils system that dominated empire state politics

    the party tried to pidgeon hole him in the bucket of spit which is the vice presidency, but a communist's bullet intervened

    as prez teddy was trust buster, he went after the barons in this gilded age, he championed food inspection, child labor laws, defense of our environment

    in the famous umw strike of 02 teddy applied presidential pressure to win the miners a higher wage and shorter work day

    teddy honored the tradition established by the greatest american, washington, and did not run for a third term in 08

    his veep taft, a company man, assumed and worked to negate the roosevelt reforms

    this is why teddy returned from safari in 12 and ran bull moose, the most successful third party bid in modern american history (he actually beat the gop)

    but he only ensured that the filthy anti black racist wilson would become the second dem to win the white house since honest abe

    the reformist, refreshing mugwump wing of the gop persisted after teddy

    fighting bob lafollette of always progressive, experimental wisconsin is the most famous of these outsider republicans

    hiram johnson in california and burton wheeler in montana were other notables

    their platform---workman's comp, collective bargaining, direct election of senators (many still chosen by state legislatures), primaries to allow the people to pick candidates instead of the hannah's and blaine's, and the POPULAR PLEBISCITE---the subject of your post

    the PROPOSITION process is very, very important here in california, the direct and extremely powerful and influential, unambiguous disposition of the voters

    reagan, incidentally, comes from the outsider wing of his gop

    he had to KICK IN THE DOOR to get where he got, he was NOT welcome by the northeast establishment, led by nelson rockefeller of ny

    everyone knows the significance of goldwater-rockefeller, 1964

    and where you were in the 1976 primary STILL defines you as a republican, if you're old enough

    fyi, for what it's worth
    Last edited by The Prof; 09-27-10 at 09:08 PM.

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Am I reading this right? Some on the far right are complaining that now congress isn't doing enough? Not long ago they were complaining they were doing too much. I guess they just can't be satsified.
    it's all about TAX CUTS, aristotle

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Obama doesn't control procedures in the House nor in the Senate.
    as HEAD of his party he had UP TIL RECENTLY an awful lot of INFLUENCE

    stop arguing, discuss what's really happening

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    Re: Congress prepares to punt, spend the fall campaigning

    so the party of pelosi is gonna have to head into these midterms thus---we just COULDN'T GET AROUND to extending the bush cuts

    for ANYONE

    obama is all on record---no one CAN AFFORD to raise taxes on the vast middle class in times like these

    and yet his party is PARALYZED

    now, he suddenly must MORPH into the DEFICIT HAWK

    after all THIS PARTY has done

    under his DIRECTION

    it's absurd

    it's just like all these democrat candidates for house, senate, gub, running around the nation trying to convince folks who own tv's that altho they voted FOR the stimulus (why can't the president say that name), FOR obamacare (why aren't any of the dems campaigning on that), FOR cap and trade (in the house), FOR bailouts and bonuses for fannie and fred and aig and federal workers and public unions and wall street lobbyists...

    suddenly, today, they're all INDEPENDENTS

    LOL!

    it's just too phony

    americans are NOT stupid, the leaders of this party demonstrably ARE

    STILL not embarrassed?

    you will be

    party on, rapidly

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