Citizens' Group Helps Uncover Alleged Rampant Voter Fraud in Houston

Moot · Sep 26, 2010

apdst said:
LOL...I should have known you were going to make that false assumption. Why do Libbos always assume that I'm white? Care to brutally honest in answering that question?!?

So are you black?

Then, why bother? Isn't that the $64,000 question. There's got to be something in it for the SEIU.

What's in it for SEIU is to get more people registered to vote in certain demographic areas that weren't before. People that Republicans have been trying to prevent from voting since Jim Crow. Now why do you suppose anyone would want the disenfranchized voters in the South to vote?

apdst · Sep 26, 2010

Moot said:
So are you black?

Well, ****ing duh!!!!!

What's in it for SEIU is to get more people registered to vote in certain demographic areas that weren't before. People that Republicans have been trying to prevent from voting since Jim Crow. Now why do you suppose anyone would want the disenfranchized voters in the South to vote?

So the Democrats can get elected. When SEIU and ACERN register voters, they are most certainly registered democrat. Who is helped by that? The Democrats, perhaps?

BTW, Jim Crow was pushed more by Democrats, than Republicans; not to mention Jim Crow ended a long time ago. The only thing that prevents anyone from registering to vote is lethargism. Here in Louisiana, anyone that gets a driver's license, can register to vote at the same time. So, "victimization", isn't an excuse anymore.

Moot · Sep 27, 2010

apdst said:
Well, ****ing duh!!!!!

Well, ****ing duh, how I would I know that if I hadn't asked?

So the Democrats can get elected. When SEIU and ACERN register voters, they are most certainly registered democrat. Who is helped by that? The Democrats, perhaps?

I believe that is correct.

BTW, Jim Crow was pushed more by Democrats, than Republicans; not to mention Jim Crow ended a long time ago. The only thing that prevents anyone from registering to vote is lethargism. Here in Louisiana, anyone that gets a driver's license, can register to vote at the same time. So, "victimization", isn't an excuse anymore.

There are still people alive today who lived under Jim Crow and btw, Democrats of the South are the Republicans of today. But you're probably right about registering with the driver's license in Louisiana, but since many of the Katrina victims relocated to Texas and since that is where this story takes place, then they probably do need to re-register to vote...as Democrats.

pbrauer · Sep 27, 2010

Barbbtx said:
Just amazing.... Not one comment so far from the left condemning the voter fraud in original post.

The term Voter Fraud is applied to someone who votes illegally. Either they are ineligible to vote or they vote more than once. Although the term is used in the OP, they is no actual voter fraud mentioned there, only alleged fraudulent registration forms.

apdst · Sep 27, 2010

Moot said:
Well, ****ing duh, how I would I know that if I hadn't asked?

You made the assumption that I wasn't; based on what? I'm a Conservative?

There are still people alive today who lived under Jim Crow and btw, Democrats of the South are the Republicans of today. But you're probably right about registering with the driver's license in Louisiana, but since many of the Katrina victims relocated to Texas and since that is where this story takes place, then they probably do need to re-register to vote...as Democrats.

No there aren't! That's bull****! I was born in 1968, in Louisiana; in the middle of plantation country. I was never affected by Jim Crow laws. The only thing that prevents blacks from registering to vote and prevents blacks from voting, is Liberal propaganda, because without the Liberal propaganda, blacks wouldn't sit at home waiting for the Democrats to send a bus to pick them up and take them to the polling house.

It's idiotic to think that Katrina refugees had to re-register to vote; which they didn't. Black voters in Houston, voted in New Orleans elections. How the hell do you think that Ray Nagin got his stupid ass elected, for a second term?

apdst · Sep 27, 2010

pbrauer said:
The term Voter Fraud is applied to someone who votes illegally. Either they are ineligible to vote or they vote more than once. Although the term is used in the OP, they is no actual voter fraud mentioned there, only alleged fraudulent registration forms.

If a voter is illegally registered to vote, then votes under that illegal registration, that equates to voter fraud.

danarhea · Sep 27, 2010

RightinNYC said:
Again, read the story.

If you're out there registering voters and someone chooses to give you a fake name or register twice, that's not your fault.

However, if you're out there registering voters and you:

1) repeatedly submit multiple registrations of the same name,
2) submit "so many applications ... in one day that it was deemed to be beyond human capability," or
3) otherwise encourage/knowingly accept signatures from people who are not citizens or are not eligible to register to vote,

you have most likely committed a crime. People are prosecuted for this all the time. This is common knowledge.

Because it's not going to waste my time searching through law for you if you can't do basic research yourself.

The problem is not political, but acts committed by petty criminals. Most people who sign up voters get paid according to how many voters they signed up. It is still voter fraud, but it is not an attempt by one political party to cheat the other. It is merely a matter of greed, and those who do this should go right to prison. The problem I have with Fox News is that they didn't attempt to make this distinction, but clearly told the story in a way that gave an appearance that they were doing this for the purpose of giving Democrats extra votes. But, considering Fox News' viewership, I am not at all surprised with the slant they gave the story.

Here's another story that really happened. About 2 months ago, the warehouse containing all the voting machines in Harris County (The Houston area) burned down, and all voting machines were destroyed.

1) Houston is mostly Democratic.

2) Bill White is running for governor.

3) Bill White is from Houston, and was a popular mayor here.

4) Rick Perry is running for reelection.

OH NOES!! Rick Perry set the fire. I know, I know, it's ridiculous, but not any more ridicuous than the way Fox News told the voter fraud story. LOL.

Moot · Sep 27, 2010

apdst said:
You made the assumption that I wasn't; based on what? I'm a Conservative?

No, I based my assumption on the statistical fact that blacks voters are more disenfranchised than whites and you seemed ignorant to that fact.

No there aren't! That's bull****! I was born in 1968, in Louisiana; in the middle of plantation country. I was never affected by Jim Crow laws.

Well goody for you but I'll bet your grandparents can remember segregation and Jim Crow like it was yesterday. And my, my, aren't you the lucky one that you don't have to experience all that because those who came before you did all the hard work so you could enjoy the equality and freedoms you have now.

The only thing that prevents blacks from registering to vote and prevents blacks from voting, is Liberal propaganda, because without the Liberal propaganda, blacks wouldn't sit at home waiting for the Democrats to send a bus to pick them up and take them to the polling house.

And in your little rightwing world view, Jesus had a pet dinosaur too.

It's idiotic to think that Katrina refugees had to re-register to vote; which they didn't. Black voters in Houston, voted in New Orleans elections. How the hell do you think that Ray Nagin got his stupid ass elected, for a second term?

Well, that was nearly five years ago and many Katrina refugees are staying and relocating in Texas....

"Texas could add four congressional seats following the 2010 Census because of a population jump partly linked to Hurricane Katrina, demographers say....."
Hurricane Katrina evacuees should help Texas gain more congressional seats | NOLA.com

Katrina evacuees a large, silent force - The Boston Globe

RightinNYC · Sep 27, 2010

Moot said:
Why don't you read the story first before telling others to read it.

I did, which is why I know that you're wrong.

Which tends to be the case for 99% of these false accusations by Republicans and the rightwing bloggers.

Well, if you know that is what actually occured then prove it.

Again, read the ****ing allegations in the story:

Among the findings were that only 1,793 of the 25,000 registrations the group submitted appeared to be valid. The other registrations included one of a woman who registered six times in the same day; registrations of non-citizens; so many applications from one Houston Voters collector in one day that it was deemed to be beyond human capability; and 1,597 registrations that named the same person multiple times, often with different signatures.

That. Is. Illegal.

If you can't back up your claim by providing a link, then I see no reason to waste my time discussing this issue with you.

Now you know how I feel.

pbrauer said:
The term Voter Fraud is applied to someone who votes illegally. Either they are ineligible to vote or they vote more than once. Although the term is used in the OP, they is no actual voter fraud mentioned there, only alleged fraudulent registration forms.

Again, you're wrong. Submitting fraudulent voter registrations is "voter fraud," "election fraud," or "voter registration fraud." Whatever you want to call it, it means the same thing.

Election fraud charge filed in Milwaukee - JSOnline

Local News | Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud | Seattle Times Newspaper

Illinois Woman Charged With Voter-Registration Fraud - washingtonpost.com

Finally, from the DoJ itself:

* What sort of activities are prosecutable as federal «voter fraud» crimes?

The federal concept of «voter fraud» applies only to activity that is appropriately remedied through criminal prosecution, as distinguished from other less severe remedies such as election contest litigation or administrative relief.

...

- First, there are schemes to purposely and corruptly register voters who either do not exist, or who are known by the putative defendant to be ineligible to vote under applicable state law.

and

* What federal statutes are available to federalize frauds that occur of all elections?

The federal criminal prosecutive theories currently in use to federalize election frauds in all elections include the following:

- Schemes to register voters fraudulently through providing election officials materially false information about the voter's eligibility for the franchise can be prosecuted in some situations without regard to when the underlying activity took place.
...

- The «false registration information» clause of 42 U.S.C. §19731(c) reaches only schemes to provide false information concerning a voter's «name, address or period of residence in the voting district.» Schemes to provide other categories of false information (e.g.. citizenship) are not reached by this statute, regardless of how material that information may be to determining voter eligibility.

- The recently-enacted National Voter Registration Act (NVRA) contains a new criminal provision that reaches schemes to provide any materially significant piece of information concerning entitlement to the federal franchise under state law. 42 U.S.C. §1973gg-10(2)(B).

http://soundpolitics.com/The Federal Crime of Election Fraud.pdf

Moot · Sep 27, 2010

RightinNYC said:
I did, which is why I know that you're wrong.

Well I did read the article and that is why I know you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Again, read the ****ing allegations in the story:

Do you understand what the word "allegation" means?

al·le·ga·tion (l-gshn)
n.
1. Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty.
2. The act of alleging.
3. A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations.
4. Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence.

allegation - definition of allegation by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Republicans are very good at alledging and very short on proving.

That. Is. Illegal.

It - still - isn't - voter fraud. Do you understand the difference between registering to vote and casting a ballot. Apparently not.

Now you know how I feel.

Likewise, I'm sure.

Again, you're wrong. Submitting fraudulent voter registrations is "voter fraud," "election fraud," or "voter registration fraud." Whatever you want to call it, it means the same thing.
Election fraud charge filed in Milwaukee - JSOnline
Local News | Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud | Seattle Times Newspaper

Illinois Woman Charged With Voter-Registration Fraud - washingtonpost.com

No, you are wrong, registration is not the same as voting. All of your links above are merely allegations of voter registration fraud, not convictions. In fact none of the GOPs bogus lawsuits resulted in convictions and are merely cheap political ploys and abuse of our judicial system. Republicans are notorious for filing bogus lawsuits and sending out press releases because it gives their lies some sense of credibilty to a gullible public. Read.....

The Republican War on Voting | The American Prospect

Was Campaigning Against Voter Fraud a Republican Ploy? | CommonDreams.org

TomPaine.com - Out to Get ACORN

The Black Commentator - The GOP’s Black Voter Suppression Strategy

Finally, from the DoJ itself:
http://soundpolitics.com/The Federal Crime of Election Fraud.pdf

Interesting, your link says there is a difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud and both are extremely difficult to prove and are seldom investigated by the federal government. But then just smearing someone in the press is the whole point of filing the bogus voter registration lawsuit, isn't it?

Show us the voter registration fraud convictions. Here's one for you....

Living in Glass Houses: The GOP's Own Man is Convicted of Voter Registration Fraud | Project Vote's Blog

RightinNYC · Sep 27, 2010

Moot said:
Well I did read the article and that is why I know you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Do you understand what the word "allegation" means?

Republicans are very good at alledging and very short on proving.

...which is why I used the word allegation.

It - still - isn't - voter fraud. Do you understand the difference between registering to vote and casting a ballot. Apparently not.

And you don't appear to understand that submitting fraudulent voter registration forms is a form of voter fraud.

No, you are wrong, registration is not the same as voting. All of your links above are merely allegations of voter registration fraud, not convictions.

Which has what to do with the point? I'm trying to explain to you that it is not legal to submit fraudulent voter registration forms and that if the allegations are accurate, crimes were committed. You're arguing that the things alleged are perfectly okay because it didn't involve anyone voting. That's wrong, as I have explained repeatedly.

In fact none of the GOPs bogus lawsuits resulted in convictions

That's because "lawsuits" don't have anything to do with "convictions." If you're going to argue that you know more about legal process than the rest of us, statements like this don't help your cause.

Interesting, your link says there is a difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud

Yes, in the same way that there is a difference between mail fraud and wire fraud. Despite the fact that they fall under different subsections of the penal code, they're still two sides of the same coin.

and both are extremely difficult to prove and are seldom investigated by the federal government. But then just smearing someone in the press is the whole point of filing the bogus voter registration lawsuit, isn't it?

Show us the voter registration convictions. Here's one for you....

Living in Glass Houses: The GOP's Own Man is Convicted of Voter Registration Fraud | Project Vote's Blog

Again, what does this have to do with the issue we're discussing? You're arguing that it's not illegal to submit fraudulent voter registration forms. That's patently false.

Moot · Sep 27, 2010

RightinNYC said:
...which is why I used the word allegation.

Good, because alledge does not mean prove.

And you don't appear to understand that submitting fraudulent voter registration forms is a form of voter fraud.

Again, we're talking about "alledged" voter registration fraud, not proven. And you have yet to show any proof of any voter registration fraud or voter fraud or whatever by SEIU. [edit; SEIU was mentioned in Grim's opening statement in case you intended to accuse me of not addressing the topic again]

Which has what to do with the point? I'm trying to explain to you that it is not legal to submit fraudulent voter registration forms and that if the allegations are accurate, crimes were committed. You're arguing that the things alleged are perfectly okay because it didn't involve anyone voting. That's wrong, as I have explained repeatedly.

Your point is taken and you are still wrong. I'm trying to explain to you and very politely I might add, that the OP article is alledging voter registration fraud and that it is a bogus claim simply based on who is making the claim and their long history of voter suppression....read this....

On Tuesday, August 24, Harris County Tax Assessor-Collector and Voter Registrar Leo Vasquez made reckless and false allegations against Houston Votes in an apparently coordinated, partisan effort to suppress voter registration and to intimidate citizens into not voting. Sadly, this type of shameful tactic has worked all too well in the past. Houston Votes is committed to non-partisan voter registration and helping register the over 600,000 citizens eligible to vote who are not even registered in Harris County....edit...

".... Houston Votes is asking the Justice Department to investigate voting rights violations by Mr. Vasquez and his office through a political campaign to intimidate voter registration. The Registrar’s Office has a long history of voter suppression. We have reason to believe that his office is continuing its systematic practice of illegally not approving registration applications from eligible citizens despite public outcry and costly litigation.

Mr. Vasquez’s press conference, as part of his official non-partisan duties, was a political circus, with dozens of partisan operatives present. Mr. Vasquez appears to have abused the power of his office by collaborating with the King Street Patriots, a partisan organization that took credit for uncovering the “fraud” alleged against Houston Votes. This political organization’s website states “that current political initiatives must be focused on mobilizing the conservative electorate”. It appears that Leo Vasquez openly coordinated with King Street Patriots to further personal political goals and retard the efforts of Houston Votes in registering people. He also appears to have shared legally confidential voter registration data with partisan political third parties, which is unlawful. Both activities warrant a criminal investigation by the Justice Department....read
Houston Votes responds – Off the Kuff

"King Street Patriots". My that has a very tea party sound to it, doesn't it?

That's because "lawsuits" don't have anything to do with "convictions." If you're going to argue that you know more about legal process than the rest of us, statements like this don't help your cause.

Wtf?? Did you really just say that "lawsuits don't have anything to do with convictions"??? LOL I think you just blew your credibilty right into outer space, RightinNYC.
:lamo

Again, what does this have to do with the issue we're discussing? You're arguing that it's not illegal to submit fraudulent voter registration forms. That's patently false.

No, that isn't what I'm arguing at all. What am I arguing is that Republicans have a long history of voter fraud, suppression, and intimidation and that accusing voter registration groups of fraud is one of their more notorious and fraudulent tactics.

It might also interest you to know this little "King Street Patriot" group down there in Houston are the main suspects for burning down the warehouse holding all of Harris County's voting machines. Yeah, you heard that right. Now if that isn't cause for a criminal investigation into voter suppression and fraud, then what hell is? ....

A mysterious fire last Friday destroys all of the voting machines in Harris County (Houston), Texas. Arson investigators have not yet issued an opinion. Meanwhile, a well-funded right-wing group emerges in Houston and begins raising unfounded allegations of widespread voter fraud. A video on their website pictures only people of color when it talks of voter fraud. White people are shown talking patriotically about the need for a million vigilantes to suppress illegal votes.
Glenn W. Smith: Possible Arson and the Right's Texas Voter Suppression Effort

Maybe it was just coincidence that the warehouse containing all — all — of Houston’s voting machines burned down mysteriously just as King Street Patriots and their ally, Tax Assessor-Collector Leo Vasquez, went public with their fraud allegations. Whatever the case, the voter intimidation and suppression campaign is clearly part of a well-funded national effort to put barriers in the way of voters suspected of disagreeing with the perpetrators’ right-wing agenda
Contempt for Democracy: Attacks on Voting Rights | Firedoglake

I will look forward to the criminal investigation and "conviction" of Mr. Leo Vasquez and the King Street Patriots. Yes indeedy.

j-mac · Sep 27, 2010

Moot said:
No, I'm saying the guy, Kenneth Gladney who said he was attacked by SEIU flat out LIED and faked his entire involvement.

Wow! "LIED" "FAKED" ????? You're kidding right?

Six people arrested in August outside a raucous town hall meeting in south St. Louis County have been charged with misdemeanor ordinance violations.

The six, including a Post-Dispatch reporter, had attended a demonstration outside an Aug. 6 forum called by U.S. Rep. Russ Carnahan, D-St. Louis, at Bernard Middle School in Mehlville to discuss health care reform.

The charges were filed Tuesday by the St. Louis County counselor’s office, which prosecutes misdemeanor ordinance violations in unincorporated areas. All are to appear in court Jan. 21.

Gateway Pundit

For one, he shows no sign of being attacked or having injury in the video

Watch the video again, Gladney was clearly on the ground when a purple shirted thug from the SEIU was kicking him.

and two he never pressed charges against SEIU

The St. Louis counselors office is in charge of pressing charges or not, and they did. Once police are involved, and submit their report, Gladney has no say on charges. They did press charges, and you are just plain wrong here.

and three, there are no hospital records of him being treated

Sure there are, where have you been?

Rope-A-Dope: Everyone Now Agrees Kenneth Gladney Was Injured In Townhall Attack - 24thState

and four, the only police report in existence can only be found on guess who, Brietbarts website and five, the wheelchair charade was too phoney to be believed. Suuuweeeee, the only injury in this case is to someone's intelligence if they believe this nonsense cooked up by rightwingers. Ouch, would that be you?

That would be all good, but for the hospital record of Gladney, the Police report, the subsequent arrest of SEIU members involved....Oh, and this second attack the same night showing what a group of liberal thugs these SEIU members really are...

» A Second SEIU Attack in St. Louis: The Kelly Owens Story - Big Government

j-mac

jambalaya · Sep 27, 2010

Moot said:
Someone standing on a sidewalk and signing up potential voters have no way of checking someones' ID or creditentials for their validity. That is the job of the voter registrations office. Again, registering people to vote is not "voter fraud". Republicans are very good at making an issue out of nothing because that is all they have to get elected.

Wasn't this depth of this scam uncovered by an outside group who put pressure upon the voter registrations office to actually do their job? And it is not a matter of passively standing on a sidewalk and signing up voters. It was a very active attempt to get legal status to vote for people who weren't eligible, accumulate valid voter ID's so people who weren't eligible could vote, and do as many of them as possible to make it very hard for people who work at voting sites to identify the illegal voters. Making an issue out of nothing? These people signing up voters were completely irresponsible period.

pbrauer · Sep 27, 2010

j-mac said:
Watch the video again, Gladney was clearly on the ground when a purple shirted thug from the SEIU was kicking him.

Gladney was NOT injured, the guy on the ground wasn't him.

Edit: Watch the video again, Gladney was the one that flagged down to police car.

j-mac · Sep 27, 2010

You really shouldn't rely on Media Matters for your take on it....

j-mac

hazlnut · Sep 27, 2010

You far-righties had this problem before, you don't understand the difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud....

Watch out, the ACORN boogeyman is coming to get you....!!!!!

Boo Radley · Sep 27, 2010

Getting your facts right is bing too nuanced. We don't need no stinkin facts!!!!

:lamo :neener

j-mac · Sep 27, 2010

Boo Radley said:
Getting your facts right is bing too nuanced. We don't need no stinkin facts!!!!

:lamo :neener

How about Hazelnut Joe? Is he one of the "Idiots" you spoke of in the other thread? See, here you seem to not only not take him to task for his broad overgeneralization of "far-righties" but you pile on with your comment.

Hypocrite much Joe?

j-mac

pbrauer · Sep 27, 2010

j-mac said:
You really shouldn't rely on Media Matters for your take on it....

j-mac

Watch the video again, at the 1:27 mark you can see Gladney (in the light olive green shirt) walking around and he doesn't look injured at all. BTW, where are the flags he was peddling? Wouldn't they be sprawled all over the ground if he was attacked?

Did you see Kenneth Gladney? Did you see him walking around and talking? If not, here’s a few still photos:

What really happened to Kenneth Gladney? - Blogging Blue

j-mac · Sep 27, 2010

pbrauer said:
Watch the video again, at the 1:27 mark you can see Gladney (in the light olive green shirt) walking around and he doesn't look injured at all.

I've seen it, and I am no doctor, are you? Can you determine injury by a youtube video?

There are Hospital records, Police reports complete with arrests, and St. Louis officals charged them.

Those are the facts.

BTW, where are the flags he was peddling? Wouldn't they be sprawled all over the ground if he was attacked?

I don't think the video focused on the stand, at least not that one. I remember when this first happened, there was a video showing the tall goofball SEIU member kicking Gladney, no surprise that it seems to have been scrubbed now. So I guess it didn't happen, is that it? Yeah right.

j-mac

pbrauer · Sep 27, 2010

j-mac said:
I've seen it, and I am no doctor, are you? Can you determine injury by a youtube video?

There are Hospital records, Police reports complete with arrests, and St. Louis officals charged them.

Those are the facts.

I don't think the video focused on the stand, at least not that one. I remember when this first happened, there was a video showing the tall goofball SEIU member kicking Gladney, no surprise that it seems to have been scrubbed now. So I guess it didn't happen, is that it? Yeah right.

j-mac

No, I'm not a doctor, however any fool can that he wasn't injured. In fact later in the video you can see him following the police car. He didn't look stressed at all.

j-mac · Sep 27, 2010

pbrauer said:
No, I'm not a doctor, however any fool can that he wasn't injured. In fact later in the video you can see him following the police car. He didn't look stressed at all.

Yep, and the twin towers fell because they were blown up by charges set by Cheney too weren't they?

Now go play.

j-mac

Boo Radley · Sep 27, 2010

j-mac said:
How about Hazelnut Joe? Is he one of the "Idiots" you spoke of in the other thread? See, here you seem to not only not take him to task for his broad overgeneralization of "far-righties" but you pile on with your comment.

Hypocrite much Joe?

j-mac

He would be equally wrong to group those who lean right into a single group. As I don't talk to him much, I suppose it hasn't come up. But the point is the same.

Now, as to the point he made about the difference, he's spot on. Voter registration fraud is not the same voter fraud. And you and others have made that error a few times over the years. And when brought up, you complain about nauance as if that wasn't a very important point.

apdst · Sep 27, 2010

hazlnut said:
You far-righties had this problem before, you don't understand the difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud....

Watch out, the ACORN boogeyman is coming to get you....!!!!!

Voter registration fraud is legal?

Citizens' Group Helps Uncover Alleged Rampant Voter Fraud in Houston

Moot

apdst

Moot

pbrauer

apdst

apdst

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot

Moot

RightinNYC

Girthless

Moot

RightinNYC

Girthless

Moot

j-mac

jambalaya

Cynical Optimist

pbrauer

j-mac

hazlnut

Boo Radley

j-mac

pbrauer

j-mac

pbrauer

j-mac

Boo Radley

apdst