Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 130

Thread: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

  1. #31
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you support farmers evading millions in income taxes every years, because they're hiring illegal aliens?!? Really?!?
    Come again? How are they evading millions in income taxes by hiring illegals? What they are evading is payroll taxes. Seriously. Don't talk about subjects you clearly do not understand.

    Furthermore, illegal alien wages in agricultural are effectively an across the board tax cut.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #32
    Professor
    Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 08:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,661

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Colbert upstaged the rest of the clowns in the house and they are pissed!
    Last edited by Phoenix; 09-24-10 at 11:54 PM.
    From the ashes.

  3. #33
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Furthermore, illegal alien wages in agricultural are effectively an across the board tax cut.
    Unless the costs associated with those illegal aliens (increased social spending, reduced tax revenue) outweigh the benefits of the cheaper labor.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #34
    Professor
    Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 08:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,661

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by sokpupet View Post
    Colbert, albeit veiled in humor, told it like it is. Do you want to pay what your food would cost if we had no migrant workers?! Really?!
    My answer is yes. I'm no minimum wage supporter, nor union goon, however, if we have a law that says people must be paid $X per hour worked it should apply to all people doing that job in this country. Otherwise we create a lower class of people, unequally protected by the law.
    From the ashes.

  5. #35
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Unless the costs associated with those illegal aliens (increased social spending, reduced tax revenue) outweigh the benefits of the cheaper labor.
    Let me state this right up, the total net benefit or cost from illegal aliens is going to be one grand equation with dozens, if not hundreds of variable factors. The positive and negative impact that illegals have is wide and varied. I honestly cannot even begin to start on that equation. I can however, address individual benefits and costs. And agriculture is a clear benefit as low wages effectively act as a tax cut. Of course there are costs, such as schooling for their children and hospital care, but rationally, it is going to be extremely difficult to say with any reasonable level of certainty of they are a net benefit or cost.

    However, I will leave you with dirty not so little secret. Illegal aliens who enter the US at the prime of their working lives are likely to be a benefit. We spend nothing to educate, house and feed them during their non-productive youth, and then leverage out their productive years at a low labor cost to ourselves. At the same time, we get at least some of their social security to help fund the deficit.

    As for reduced tax revenue, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Are we not taxing them on income? Probably. But at the same time does their labor allow us to free up resources for more productive, higher revenue generating activities? Possibly. Hard to say if they are in fact a reduced tax revenue cause.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #36
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Let me state this right up, the total net benefit or cost from illegal aliens is going to be one grand equation with dozens, if not hundreds of variable factors. The positive and negative impact that illegals have is wide and varied. I honestly cannot even begin to start on that equation.
    I agree with all this.

    I can however, address individual benefits and costs. And agriculture is a clear benefit as low wages effectively act as a tax cut. Of course there are costs, such as schooling for their children and hospital care, but rationally, it is going to be extremely difficult to say with any reasonable level of certainty of they are a net benefit or cost.

    However, I will leave you with dirty not so little secret. Illegal aliens who enter the US at the prime of their working lives are likely to be a benefit. We spend nothing to educate, house and feed them during their non-productive youth, and then leverage out their productive years at a low labor cost to ourselves. At the same time, we get at least some of their social security to help fund the deficit.

    As for reduced tax revenue, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Are we not taxing them on income? Probably. But at the same time does their labor allow us to free up resources for more productive, higher revenue generating activities? Possibly. Hard to say if they are in fact a reduced tax revenue cause.
    I actually don't think it's that clear. If the alien is working under the table (very common), the government gets absolutely nothing in terms of tax revenue. Even if they're paying taxes with someone else's identity, the total revenue to the government is substantially reduced - not only is the overall money paid to workers less (otherwise there would be no reason to hire them), but the government takes in less from two guys earning $30k than it does from one guy earning $60k.

    In addition, it seems likely that the costs are substantial. In most cases, taking care of the children will drastically outweigh any possible benefits from the parents. Even if the average family only has 2 kids, that's $10k/kid/year in public schooling. Add in medicaid or schip and the costs are enormous.

    I agree that it's incredibly difficult to consider all these factors and come up with a number one way or the other, I just think it's likely that the costs outweigh the overall downward pressure on prices.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #37
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I actually don't think it's that clear. If the alien is working under the table (very common), the government gets absolutely nothing in terms of tax revenue.
    Why nothing? If the employer is paying them wages below legal, they are also taking employee expenses below legal and thereby boosting their taxable income. Therefore, the government is getting revenue based upon the difference between legal and illegal wages. That's hardly nothing. While it is possible that the employer is reporting legal wages, that would technically be tax fraud and the government can get a lot more then just the base amount of evaded taxes. It's a deferral if you will.

    Even if they're paying taxes with someone else's identity, the total revenue to the government is substantially reduced - not only is the overall money paid to workers less (otherwise there would be no reason to hire them), but the government takes in less from two guys earning $30k than it does from one guy earning $60k.
    In terms of an isolated system, that would be correct. But if the employer then reports the difference in taxable income, then the government could make it back. And if the employer is generating sufficient income to put them into the 35% tax bracket, they would in theory be making more then taxing two guys making $30k apiece at low rates. But at the same time, if the employer just hides the difference, then you'd be correct. Hard to say either way. I'm just throwing out scenarios here. One thing I do know that is the employer is trying to expand, using saved labor money to buy equipment should generate income on the supplier side and thus taxable revenue. How much either way? Impossible to say right now.

    In addition, it seems likely that the costs are substantial. In most cases, taking care of the children will drastically outweigh any possible benefits from the parents. Even if the average family only has 2 kids, that's $10k/kid/year in public schooling. Add in medicaid or schip and the costs are enormous.
    But how much do illegal kids actually cost? The 10k seems reasonable as illegals are likely to educate their children. But how often do they use the medical services?

    One cost that you didn't talk about is the various costs associated with multiple languages. With millions of spanish only illegals, there's a cost to integration and it's probably large.

    I agree that it's incredibly difficult to consider all these factors and come up with a number one way or the other, I just think it's likely that the costs outweigh the overall downward pressure on prices.
    I agree with your first sentence, the second I'm not sure about either way. I can see how it could go both ways. But I'm not convinced without that grand equation that is can really be said either way.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #38
    Guru
    Councilman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Riverside, County, CA.
    Last Seen
    11-04-11 @ 08:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,454
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Come again? How are they evading millions in income taxes by hiring illegals? What they are evading is payroll taxes. Seriously. Don't talk about subjects you clearly do not understand.

    Furthermore, illegal alien wages in agricultural are effectively an across the board tax cut.
    Yau can't seriously believe what you are saying, many illegal aliens work under the table and for less the state minumum wages and even at that they send so much money back to Mexico that without it some believe that country would go ahead and collapse.

    And this is nonsensical Liberal boulder dash:
    Social conservatism is antithetical to limited government.
    Why you ask? Because antithetic means sharply contrasted in character or purpose, and that does not compute since conservatism is largely based on smaller Government. And now you are confusing Conservative with all republicans and that too does not fit with reality because the are dumb ass Liberal wackos who are Republicans such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, RINO and Liberal incarnate.
    Last edited by Councilman; 09-25-10 at 12:33 AM.

  9. #39
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Yau can't seriously believe what you are saying, many illegal aliens work under the table and for less the state minumum wages and even at that they send so much money back to Mexico that without some believe that country would go ahead and collapse.
    Learn to read: Adpt said this:

    "Do you support farmers evading millions in income taxes every years, because they're hiring illegal aliens?!? Really?!?"

    You can apologize at your leisure. Did I say anything about the actual workers evading income tax? No. Adpst specifically pointed out the people hiring them. So I pointed out how the people hiring them can only hide money via tax fraud, otherwise the difference between legal and illegal pay shows up as an increase to their taxable income and thus gets hit by income tax. Therefore, hiring illegals doesn't cause FARMERS to evade income tax. Payroll taxes are another matter entirely though.

    Again, you can apologize at your leisure.

    And this is nonsensical Liberal boulder dash
    Mullah Iran = You're wrong. Wahhabist Saudi Arabia = You're wrong. Puritan England = You're wrong. Puritan Colonial America = You're wrong. Need I keep going on about how you're wrong?

    Why you ask? Because antithetic means sharply contrasted in character or purpose, and that does not compute since conservatism is largely based on smaller Government.
    So the 2001 Gop wasn't conservative when they got the Federal Government into the private family matter of the Schiavo's? Let's see just how hypocritical and contradictory you can be today.

    Again, Mullah Iran, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, Puritan England and Puritan Colonial America all show that strong social conservatism eats into limited government and personal freedoms.

    And now you are confusing Conservative with all republicans and that too does not fit with reality because the are dumb ass Liberal wackos who are Republicans such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, RINO and Liberal incarnate.
    Frankly, there are no Republicans in Congress who are Conservative. The Senate and House Minority Leaders partook in the massive fiscal liberalism and government expansion under Bush
    Last edited by obvious Child; 09-25-10 at 12:37 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #40
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Colbert Offers Comedy Shtick in Farm Workers Testimony, Fails to Amuse Lawmakers

    And yes Councilman, I can see you editing your post right now.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •