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Thread: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    What is it you think banks do with the savings? Keep all the money locked up in the vault?
    Nope. But do you have any evidence they loan more with tax cuts?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. But do you have any evidence they loan more with tax cuts?
    Firstly, that isn't the point. Tax cuts are a good thing in and of themselves.

    Secondly, you make it sound like the money put into a bank just sits there and collects dust. It doesn't. It makes no difference if the banks invest more, less, or the same amount with tax cuts; that money is still being put to use in the economy.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Into savings. Not spent. Not creating jobs. Not helping the economy.
    Ok, where does the savings go? Do you believe that sits in a bank vault?

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Firstly, that isn't the point. Tax cuts are a good thing in and of themselves.

    Secondly, you make it sound like the money put into a bank just sits there and collects dust. It doesn't. It makes no difference if the banks invest more, less, or the same amount with tax cuts; that money is still being put to use in the economy.
    In the context of the discussion, it does matter. As for in and of themselves, isn't that a subjective judgement? I mean, taxes don't sit in a vaccum either. They serve a purpose. If the tax cuts mean less roads built or repaired, or the military not getting what it really needs (not wants), or even if needed services are curtailed, one could easily make a subjective judgement that tax cuts are bad in and of themselves.

    Again, the value and worth of a tax is in what it does and doesn't do. To most of mine and conservatives argument this centers on whether a tax cut does or does not stimulate the economy and produce jobs, or even reduce the debt. the evidence is lacking that tax cuts do any of that.

    And I continue to argue that if we're really concerned with the deficit, we will argue to cut spending and raise taxes.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 09-24-10 at 04:36 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, where does the savings go? Do you believe that sits in a bank vault?
    banks invest that money in other investment vehicles that hopefully pay more than the bank pays out in interest. which, these days, is a little harder to do. or, they lend. at least they used to. deposit gathering hasn't led to greated credit availablity, however.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In the context of the discussion, it does matter. As for in and of themselves, isn't that a subjective judgement? I mean, taxes don't sit in a vaccum either. They serve a purpose. If the tax cuts mean less roads built or repaired, or the military not getting what it really needs (not wants), or even if needed services are curtailed, one could easiler make a subjective judgement that tax cuts are bad in and of themselves.

    Again, the value and worth of a tax is in what it does and doesn't do. To most of mind and conservatives argument this centers on whether a tax cut does or does not stimulate the economy and produce jobs, or even reduce the debt. the evidence is lacking that tax cuts do any of that.

    And I continue to argue that if we're really concerned with the deficit, we will argue to cut spending and raise taxes.
    Taxes should represent what the government needs, not how much everyone should pay. Somewhere along the line the powers that be changed the argument into "fairness." Frankly I don't give a damn if the tax cut hurts the economy or helps it. This government needs to be reigned in, and about the only way to do it is to reduce the money coming into it.

    Taxes and spending need to be cut, and for the same reason -- government has far outgrown its bounds and needs to be put back into its proper scope.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    banks invest that money in other investment vehicles that hopefully pay more than the bank pays out in interest. which, these days, is a little harder to do. or, they lend. at least they used to. deposit gathering hasn't led to greated credit availablity, however.
    yes, banks use the money for loans that benefit the economy and that is the point, whether an individual spends the money, saves the money, invests the money, or pays down debt it benefits the economy thus the need for people keeping more of what they earn.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Taxes should represent what the government needs, not how much everyone should pay. Somewhere along the line the powers that be changed the argument into "fairness." Frankly I don't give a damn if the tax cut hurts the economy or helps it. This government needs to be reigned in, and about the only way to do it is to reduce the money coming into it.

    Taxes and spending need to be cut, and for the same reason -- government has far outgrown its bounds and needs to be put back into its proper scope.
    That's another argument, but not new to this president or congress. We've had a progressive tax at least since WWII if not before. And as we are the government, I'm not sure I agree with you about usefullness and proper scope. Nothing today is really all that different than what it has been doing all along.

    And most people really will not support loss of services they now rely on, no matter what they say (hence the tea party incoherent message).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's another argument, but not new to this president or congress. We've had a progressive tax at least since WWII if not before. And as we are the government, I'm not sure I agree with you about usefullness and proper scope. Nothing today is really all that different than what it has been doing all along.
    I really don't know how you can say a) that the government is in its proper scope in light of the Constitution, and b) that it isn't "really all that different" than it has been.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And most people really will not support loss of services they now rely on, no matter what they say (hence the tea party incoherent message).
    Maybe, maybe not. At the current rate, everyone is going to have to endure loss of services when this bloated government finally goes tits up. That's hardly debateable, and that is why voting for the usual suspects is going to do nothing to make things better.

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    Re: GOP 'Pledge' makes closing argument to voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I really don't know how you can say a) that the government is in its proper scope in light of the Constitution, and b) that it isn't "really all that different" than it has been.Maybe, maybe not. At the current rate, everyone is going to have to endure loss of services when this bloated government finally goes tits up. That's hardly debateable, and that is why voting for the usual suspects is going to do nothing to make things better.
    I can say it because people have always used government to tackle large problems. There is a reason for this. It is easier for a large number to carry and huge load, or to tackle bigger problems. This is not new, and it has been allowed all along. And challenges brought before the courts have often allowed this as well. Again, it is our hsitory.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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