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Thread: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan war

  1. #71
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w



    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    the court packing plan:

    Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the roosevelt recession of 37:

    Recession of 1937

    back to the topic, it is TRAGIC what is told in woodward's book

    1. our strategists do not believe we can win (they're right)

    2. the president does not believe in obama's war, he's there only for politics

    3. he feels we can "absorb" a terrorist attack

    4. the enemy we seek, al qaeda, has less than 100 people in afghanistan

    5. karzai's a crook AND a kook and we're stuck with him

    6. last weekend's elections were a disaster

    etc, etc, etc

    obama should be ashamed

    and so should his supporters
    Your points one by one

    1. They are right and it is their fault for being CHICKEN SHTUFF to win

    2. I agree, plus Obama is a Muslim sympathizer and his heart in not where it should be.

    3. This is a damn foolish thing to allow out in public because it's an invitation to disaster. This proves he's a naive amateurish dumb ass!

    4. did he get an E-mail we don't know about? If this is the case lets go on a total seek and destroy mission and kill every damn one of them and enough Taliban to shut them the hell up once and for all and come home to a huge parade.

    5.True but he should learn the hard way if necessary that he only rules at our pleasure not the other way around. It's his stupid rules of engagement that are killing many of our people.

    6. To quote Ed McMahon you are right sir!

    In closing I am ashamed of our education system that doesn't teach critical thinking and is creating a bunch of sheeple raised as Liberals who can only follow Der Fuhrer and can't really think past talking points.

    It is show time after time here where they attack the messenger and seldom the message with a cogent intelligent retort containing the truth or facts and that is how we will defeat them.

    For their edification "retort" means
    1.to reply to, usually in a sharp or retaliatory way; reply in kind to.
    2.to return (an accusation, epithet, etc.) upon the person uttering it.
    3.to answer (an argument or the like) by another to the contrary.

    And if they are still confused edification means: moral improvement or guidance.

    I hope that clears it all up so there is no confusion it is not my intention to confound anyone ever.

  2. #72
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Bzrezinski said that in 1979. You do know what years Carter was president, right?

    If my historical facts are wrong, then you must be able to prove that no one in the United States believed that a Soviet presence in Afghanistan could be a danger to the Persian Gulf. If not, then just wallow in your own ignorance. That's your problem, not mine.
    you have provided NO historical facts
    all you have provided is a cite which proves your position to have been wrong
    and then you challenge me to prove a negative

    so, establish your position by offering up something more than comjecture about the soviet intentions to control the oil of the persian gulf
    hint: an article about soviet diplomacy after their defeat by afghani freedom fighters will not prove what you have asserted, that the soviets intended to control persian gulf oil
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you have provided NO historical facts
    all you have provided is a cite which proves your position to have been wrong
    and then you challenge me to prove a negative

    so, establish your position by offering up something more than comjecture about the soviet intentions to control the oil of the persian gulf
    hint: an article about soviet diplomacy after their defeat by afghani freedom fighters will not prove what you have asserted, that the soviets intended to control persian gulf oil
    I've given you historical facts. It's your turn to use your own facts to refute what I've presented.

    I'm not asking you to prove a negative. Surely, if I'm wrong, there are docs pointing to where people believed that the Soviets weren't believed to be a threat to the Persian Gulf. There has to be, by now, someone that has made that claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I've given you historical facts. It's your turn to use your own facts to refute what I've presented.

    I'm not asking you to prove a negative. Surely, if I'm wrong, there are docs pointing to where people believed that the Soviets weren't believed to be a threat to the Persian Gulf. There has to be, by now, someone that has made that claim.
    point out the "historical facts" you have presented, which facts buttress your argument
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    one would think that if the soviets had a strategy to acquire persian gulf oil by force, we would have been able to know it, now that the ussr has disintegrated
    In fact there were a few reasons given for the Soviet invasion but geopolitically, and looking at a map, it seems clear why the Russians wanted control of Afghanistan. Otherwise why would they bother?

    we certainly never saw it, but show us that such a strategy was, in fact, pursued by the soviets
    It was certainly mentioned at that time that open waters was the main Soviet goal. Again, looking at a map pretty much says it all.
    but then i realize there are those who will drink whatever kool aid is offered them, whether it is we are fiscally responsible while we borrow money to offer tax breaks to billionaires, or iraq is an al qaeda supporter with weapons of mass destruction. the kind of people who resent that others actually seek out the facts instead of imbibing what is fed to them by a propaganda apparatus
    Speaking of a map, this is all over it.


    and this new member comment
    it appears your (current) user name has been registered since 2010 while mine has since 2005
    if you were pointing to another as a "new member", point them out
    It seemed clear enough that I was referring to the world scene, not to this particular debate board. Does being a member here since 2005 make you an expert on global affairs?

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    This site gives a bit of background.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...ord.html#link2

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    point out the "historical facts" you have presented, which facts buttress your argument
    Lacking knowledge, doesn't make you the winner of the debate. I gave you primary source documentation--the Brzenzski quote--unless there's some evidence that Brzenzski didn't say that, then there's your proof. But, if you insist:

    The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on January 23, 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union—the Cold War adversary of the United States—from seeking hegemony in the Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil," Carter proclaimed:

    The region which is now threatened by Soviet troops in Afghanistan is of great strategic importance: It contains more than two-thirds of the world's exportable oil. The Soviet effort to dominate Afghanistan has brought Soviet military forces to within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean and close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway through which most of the world's oil must flow. The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil.

    Carter Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #78
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact there were a few reasons given for the Soviet invasion but geopolitically, and looking at a map, it seems clear why the Russians wanted control of Afghanistan. Otherwise why would they bother?
    The Origins of the Soviet-Afghan War
    insights into the circumstances which prompted the war. included are some ussr communiques describing the background
    nothing indicates afghanistan was a path taken to reach the persian gulf
    It was certainly mentioned at that time that open waters was the main Soviet goal. Again, looking at a map pretty much says it all.
    so, you think that a look at a map makes the point that the soviets intended to control the oil of the persian gulf
    no need on your part to consider these things that are described as "facts". try them out sometime. they will serve you better than staring at a map
    Speaking of a map, this is all over it.
    and still no facts ... just map watching
    It seemed clear enough that I was referring to the world scene, not to this particular debate board. Does being a member here since 2005 make you an expert on global affairs?
    how could i have missed that. you were referring to the world scene when referring to new members:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems that every few years a great many new members arrive on the scene insisting on saying "Show Me" to something that has been rather common knowledge.

    It demonstrates yet again how history lessons have taken a back seat to courses in self esteem, origami or dance lessons.
    [color changed by bubba]
    that world scene of origami and dance lessons ... seems some self esteem lessons were too effective, providing those of you without insights a belief that they actually had some
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #79
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This site gives a bit of background.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...ord.html#link2
    point out the reference to the soviets going thru afghanistan to attain control of persian gulf oil. i missed seeing it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #80
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Lacking knowledge, doesn't make you the winner of the debate. I gave you primary source documentation--the Brzenzski quote--unless there's some evidence that Brzenzski didn't say that, then there's your proof. But, if you insist:
    and we find that the Carter doctrine regarding soviet efforts to control persian gulf oil was as wrong as the bush regime insisting that iraq aided al qaeda and possessed weapons of mass destruction, and had supported the 9/11 attack
    (to his credit, at least Carter did not cost us treasure and the lives of our young with his own misrepresentations)

    i am surprised that you drank the kool aid of the left as well as the right
    certainly, if a politician says someting, it must be the truth [/sarcasm]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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