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Thread: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan war

  1. #61
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Had our civilian Government interfered with Military Operations during WW-II like they did in Vietnam, and now again in Afghanistan with these totally retarded namby pamby rules of engagement dictated to our troops by Karzai and Backed up by dumb asses back here, everyone from the Mississippi river east would be speaking German and doing a lot of sieg heils to Der Fuhrer, and the west of the Mississippi we would be speaking Japanese and working in labor camps bowing and scraping to our short ruthless keepers and a pip squeak Emperor.

    These guys had their faults but they knew had to get the hell out of the way and let the Military do what they do best unlike the leaders of today
    Last edited by Councilman; 09-25-10 at 05:53 PM.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    well, the CARTER DOCRINE was issued in response to something

    The region which is now threatened by Soviet troops in Afghanistan is of great strategic importance: It contains more than two-thirds of the world's exportable oil. The Soviet effort to dominate Afghanistan has brought Soviet military forces to within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean and close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway through which most of the world's oil must flow. The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil.

    This situation demands careful thought, steady nerves, and resolute action, not only for this year but for many years to come. It demands collective efforts to meet this new threat to security in the Persian Gulf and in Southwest Asia. It demands the participation of all those who rely on oil from the Middle East and who are concerned with global peace and stability. And it demands consultation and close cooperation with countries in the area which might be threatened.

    Meeting this challenge will take national will, diplomatic and political wisdom, economic sacrifice, and, of course, military capability. We must call on the best that is in us to preserve the security of this crucial region.

    Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.
    Carter Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the kids don't recall the 1980 olympics?

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    never saw proof that the persian gulf was the ultimate ussr objective, and that it decided to reach that goal thru the quagmire which is afghanistan
    how about offering a cite which would support your assertion this was actually the soviet's strategy
    It seems that every few years a great many new members arrive on the scene insisting on saying "Show Me" to something that has been rather common knowledge.

    It demonstrates yet again how history lessons have taken a back seat to courses in self esteem, origami or dance lessons.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    ah, yalta

    i've seen that picture a thousand times but i never noticed the cigarette in franklin deficit roosevelt's left hand

    he'd be dead in 2 months

    those rank apologists of franklin's post war alignments offer up as their ONLY defense of this consignment of half a billion human beings to the physical, economic and psychological constraints of the soviet slave state the observation that he was sick

    he doesn't look very good, does he

    sad

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    ah, yalta

    i've seen that picture a thousand times but i never noticed the cigarette in franklin deficit roosevelt's left hand

    he'd be dead in 2 months

    those rank apologists of franklin's post war alignments offer up as their ONLY defense of this consignment of half a billion human beings to the physical, economic and psychological constraints of the soviet slave state the observation that he was sick

    he doesn't look very good, does he

    sad


    Few people want to remember that FDR's National Recovery Act Title I of the famous (NRA) was deemed un-Constitutional.

    And that in reaction to the Supreme Court which over turned Congressional legislation on such issues as child labor and minimum wage for women, FDR proposed a Judicial Branch Reorganization act, which would have “packed the courts” with younger, New Deal-friendly justices.

    And thank God it failed or we'd be 100% Socialist/Marxist and screwed. In fact we would have collapsed many years ago. FDR was good during the was for the most part but he was a flaming Progressive and like Obama that is not a good thing by any stretch.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    let's examine the first comment to which i took exception:
    and in response you provide ar article which tells us that after its military defeat in afghanistan, the soviets attempted to establish diplomatic alliances in the middle east - and especially with an anti-American iran


    so, after the ussr had its ass handed to them - a historical fact which needs to be recognized by our present administration - the soviets attempted an oil diplomacy. emphasis on the diplomacy ... yet, you speak in terms of soviet control of ME oil reserves and soviet invasion/encroachment of the persian gulf
    so give us a cite showing that such invasion of the persian gulf was in fact part of the soviet strategy
    i call bull****, but prove me wrong
    I gave you a quote from Carter's NSA, that proved the belief that the Soviets were headed for the Persian Gulf.

    Care to show me any docs that suggest differently? Or, are you going to wage your usual war of samantics?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    the court packing plan:

    Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the roosevelt recession of 37:

    Recession of 1937

    back to the topic, it is TRAGIC what is told in woodward's book

    1. our strategists do not believe we can win (they're right)

    2. the president does not believe in obama's war, he's there only for politics

    3. he feels we can "absorb" a terrorist attack

    4. the enemy we seek, al qaeda, has less than 100 people in afghanistan

    5. karzai's a crook AND a kook and we're stuck with him

    6. last weekend's elections were a disaster

    etc, etc, etc

    obama should be ashamed

    and so should his supporters

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I gave you a quote from Carter's NSA, that proved the belief that the Soviets were headed for the Persian Gulf.

    Care to show me any docs that suggest differently? Or, are you going to wage your usual war of samantics?
    yes, you offered a cite - for the period after the ussr was defeated in afghanistan
    in which the soviets initiated a diplomatic approach to the states of the persian gulf
    nothing there indicates documentation of your statement that:
    ... Their ultimate destination was the Persian Gulf. It would have been a bad scene, if the Soviets controlled more than half of the world's oil reserves.
    the ussr just got its ass kicked by the afghani freedom fighters
    there is NOTHING to indicate the soviets had any strategy to acquire control over persian gulf oil
    you have been invited to offer such proof and you have repeatedly failed to do so
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It seems that every few years a great many new members arrive on the scene insisting on saying "Show Me" to something that has been rather common knowledge.

    It demonstrates yet again how history lessons have taken a back seat to courses in self esteem, origami or dance lessons.
    one would think that if the soviets had a strategy to acquire persian gulf oil by force, we would have been able to know it, now that the ussr has disintegrated

    we certainly never saw it, but show us that such a strategy was, in fact, pursued by the soviets

    but then i realize there are those who will drink whatever kool aid is offered them, whether it is we are fiscally responsible while we borrow money to offer tax breaks to billionaires, or iraq is an al qaeda supporter with weapons of mass destruction. the kind of people who resent that others actually seek out the facts instead of imbibing what is fed to them by a propaganda apparatus


    and this new member comment
    it appears your (current) user name has been registered since 2010 while mine has since 2005
    if you were pointing to another as a "new member", point them out
    Last edited by justabubba; 09-25-10 at 07:14 PM.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yes, you offered a cite - for the period after the ussr was defeated in afghanistan
    in which the soviets initiated a diplomatic approach to the states of the persian gulf
    nothing there indicates documentation of your statement that:
    the ussr just got its ass kicked by the afghani freedom fighters
    there is NOTHING to indicate the soviets had any strategy to acquire control over persian gulf oil
    you have been invited to offer such proof and you have repeatedly failed to do so
    Bzrezinski said that in 1979. You do know what years Carter was president, right?

    If my historical facts are wrong, then you must be able to prove that no one in the United States believed that a Soviet presence in Afghanistan could be a danger to the Persian Gulf. If not, then just wallow in your own ignorance. That's your problem, not mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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