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Thread: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan war

  1. #31
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Since WWII, we have become too humane, Councilman. This sick, stupid, liberal attitude that you should fight war in a "humane", "kill-as-few-as-possible" manner is simply bull****. History is replete with examples of war that works. And the lesson that should have been learned is that you kill a whole ****ing lot of the enemy. Enough that they are too busy trying to scrape food together to give you ****. Not to mention they don't have enough people left to be much of a problem.

    But we chose not to learn from history. We won't learn the history of our current wars either. We fight wars of occupation and instead of learning the lesson that we don't want wars of occupation, we will continue to do it. At least until someone who knows their history a bit better fights a war of annihilation and subjugation against us. And wins -----enter Islam

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Since WWII, we have become too humane, Councilman. This sick, stupid, liberal attitude that you should fight war in a "humane", "kill-as-few-as-possible" manner is simply bull****. History is replete with examples of war that works. And the lesson that should have been learned is that you kill a whole ****ing lot of the enemy. Enough that they are too busy trying to scrape food together to give you ****. Not to mention they don't have enough people left to be much of a problem.

    But we chose not to learn from history. We won't learn the history of our current wars either. We fight wars of occupation and instead of learning the lesson that we don't want wars of occupation, we will continue to do it. At least until someone who knows their history a bit better fights a war of annihilation and subjugation against us. And wins -----enter Islam
    War is also filled with many examples of genocides, mass rape, destruction of cultures etc. Do you also suggest we go back to that?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    War is also filled with many examples of genocides, mass rape, destruction of cultures etc. Do you also suggest we go back to that?
    Sending troops to fight and then withdrawing their support because of politics is no way to fight a war.

    There is no continuity of purpose and plan from one president or administration to the next. Consequently, an enemy that thinks in terms of decades or the long haul has a decided advantage. We seem to tire of an occupation or task that takes more than a year or two and they can count on the opposition party vowing to do something different and thus opposing the efforts of the previous administration.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    "Liberal Democracy"? There's an oxymoron.
    Liberal in the sense of an open society, not in the sense of American liberalism. Must you always be a partisan hack?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    Let me spell out victory for the losers among us: The Taliban and any other Islamic nut job orginizations are exterminated and the level headed folk in the country take charge and put things back together.
    And you think that that's a plausible goal? Afghanistan has been war-torn for decades, and they don't trust us any more than they've trusted any of the other military factions within their country. Furthermore, in a tribal society like Afghanistan, the level-headed folk aren't just going to suddenly "take charge and put things back together." They're going to rely on whatever militia is willing to protect them from other tribes and other warlords. Furthermore, "Islamic nut job organizations" are not going to be exterminated as long as Afghanistan remains as impoverished as it currently is. These are EXACTLY the types of conditions where Islamic extremism festers, and no amount of American military power can change that.
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Sending troops to fight and then withdrawing their support because of politics is no way to fight a war.

    There is no continuity of purpose and plan from one president or administration to the next. Consequently, an enemy that thinks in terms of decades or the long haul has a decided advantage. We seem to tire of an occupation or task that takes more than a year or two and they can count on the opposition party vowing to do something different and thus opposing the efforts of the previous administration.
    You didn't answer my question. Are you suggesting we go back to how war used to be done or are you not? American soldiers raped and killed many innocent civilians in Vietnam. The same happened in Korea. Are you suggesting we go back to that era? What about during WWII? Do you suggest we simply bomb cities to **** like we did during WWII? Maybe a daycare centre full of kids? Some hospitals? I'm curious to know. You obviously seem to be a connoisseur of how war use to be done. So what is it? Rapes or genocides? Bombing anything that moves or waiting to get on the ground and burning entire villages? Please enlighten me. I'm dying to know. Are you suggesting we go back to how war use to be done or not? Do the means justify the ends for you? Cause if you're willing to have dead kids, destroyed villages, raped women on your conscience - hey - more power to you. But I personally won't support a government who sanctions and covers up atrocities just so a few people can get the satisfaction of saying they liberated some ****hole in the backwoods of the world.

    It could be that you're only talking tough because you probably don't know the realities of war. Let's face it. Most people don't know what it's like to run into a village and kill everything that moves. They probably don't know what it's like to carry a dead kid in their arms. They probably don't know what it's like to be bombed to **** for 24 hours straight. Who wants to know that kind of war? Do you know the real reason Vietnam failed? It was because thousands of people who had gone to war came back with missing limbs, dead friends and horrible memories. Those are the people who shut down the biggest waste of human life in American history during the 20th century. It wasn't because politicians couldn't hold the peace movement. It was because they couldn't argue against so many people with stories depicting what it was like to go to a war we started under false pretences.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 09-23-10 at 03:12 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    War is also filled with many examples of genocides, mass rape, destruction of cultures etc. Do you also suggest we go back to that?
    You need to be more specific with a question and and point out examples from WW-II where the US Army was involved in the wild deeds you claim.

    Yes over 100 years ago the Native Americans were mistreated, and the Japanese kill almost 100.000 Chinese in what became known as the rape of Nanking in 1937 & 38, and Hitler tried wipe out the Jews, and in 1943 Winston Churchill deliberately let millions of Indians starve to death in the Bengal famine, after the Japanese captured neighboring Burma.

    Those examples I am aware of but for the life of me I can't come up with any examples of the US doing anything like that. Unless you want to get into the two A-bombs being dropped that ended the War.

    Or maybe it's the Bombing of Dresden by the British Royal Air Force and the United States Army Air Force. Which was in direct response to the Bombing of London. A bit of tit for tat.

    You may be talking about small scale atrocities carried out in Vietnam like the My Lai Massacre of March 16, 1968 where US Army under the command of Lt. William Calley killed between 347 and over 500 people in a small village for no good reason.

    So what exactly are you refering to or are you just saying the in general war is hell'

    Well I would agree with that but if some country is going to aid and abet those who who would come to our soil to kill innocent civilians because their Islamic Cult told them to, the groves have to come off at that point and that mean people are going die, and as Patton said: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country"
    I agree with the General.

    Stars and Stripes forever.


    Those who stand for nothing fall for anything
    Last edited by Councilman; 09-23-10 at 04:04 AM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Who, exactly, was being insubordinate? Other than maybe McChrystal, that is.
    That would be the people who were giving the presidents plans he did not ask for and not giving him the plans he did ask for.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    on sunday, sept 20, 2009, barack hussein went on FIVE sunday talk shows

    it was in the midst of his dithering days, the msm were all over for him for NOT being able to decide exactly what to do about OBAMA'S WAR

    pressed by gibson and stephy and john king, et al, that long ago sunday, obama offered word for word his same explanation---he was awaiting a "top to bottom review" he'd requested from his commander in the field who was general stanley mcchrystal at the time

    well, the NEXT DAY, monday, sept 21, BOB WOODWARD in wapo LEAKED "stanley mcchrystal's secret assessment"

    McChrystal: More Forces or 'Mission Failure' - washingtonpost.com

    it turns out, woodward waylaid, that for a month obnoxious obama had been SITTING ON the "top to bottom review" he said he was waiting for and needed to be able to make his "rational" decision

    he LIED

    mcchrystal's SECRET ASSESSMENT, woodward revealed, called for obama to send reinforcements FAST else face the certain prospect of LOSING OBAMA'S WAR

    these developments, mcchrystal's report and woodward's leak, more than anything else pushed our perplexed president, precipitated the putz' ultimate decision to surge, ie, ESCALATE

    are these the people not giving the president the plans he asked for?

    or are they the ones giving him plans he didn't ask for?

    embarrassed yet?

    either way, it's clear the doofus does not know what he's doing

    and our soldiers are sacrificing ultimately for it

    ie, for nothing

    what do YOU think of THAT?

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Weird, how in getting tfo of Afghanistan it would seem to me PBO knew exactly what he was doing.

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    Re: Bob Woodward book details Obama battles with advisers over exit plan for Afghan w

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This weak stick President is not concerned with winning anything concerned with the War's we are in, only how can we cut and run. Also, callously that further attacks on this country and the loss of civilians in this country are acceptable to him.


    j-mac
    Define winning. I think some think of things like a sporting event and really can't seem to understand something more complex. This leads to making silly statements like the president doesn't care about winning. It would be better if we had proper goals, and sought to achieve those goals.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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