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Thread: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

  1. #301
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I believe it is quite ignorant for anyone to believe that the military, Congress, or whoever the heck it takes to repeal DADT would not also include any other military rules that would keep gays from serving from being repealed as well. The whole point of removing DADT is so that gays will be able to serve in the military openly. Most of the military rules have already been changed to accomodate this. The only real rule that only affects gays, from what I know, is DADT. Even sodomy rules could technically stay in place, since the military would actually have to prove sodomy occurred and the punishments would have to be equivalent to those that would be received by a heterosexual engaging in the same act(s). Sexuality would also have to be included in the tolerance and equal opportunity trainings. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that these are a few of the things that they are looking into in the study.
    Do you have any evidence that that's the case? I haven't seen it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I recognize that....however, you make the bigger mistake in believing that it ends there. Gay people in the military have to lie every day. What do you think happens when soldiers sit around and talk about girlfriends back home, about celebrities that they think are hot...etc. If the gay soldier sits silent, you don't think that this is going to expose them as being gay?...and if they can't be honest and open, many feel that they have to put on an act so as not to out themselves. Its all really rather silly.
    The vast majority of America, including those serving in the military are not as homophobic as people, for instance, in Navy Pride's generation. Most people are more tolent today.
    none of which changes the fact that without DADT there is no way for a gay person to legally serve in the military. If DADT is repealed the old policy of a complete ban on gays will be back in effect. I don't see how that is a step in the right direction.

    leave DADT in place and work on eliminating the ban. gay supporters are putting the proverbial cart before the horse on this one.
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  3. #303
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    none of which changes the fact that without DADT there is no way for a gay person to legally serve in the military. If DADT is repealed the old policy of a complete ban on gays will be back in effect. I don't see how that is a step in the right direction.

    leave DADT in place and work on eliminating the ban. gay supporters are putting the proverbial cart before the horse on this one.
    Not to mention that defrauding the military. i.e. lieing about being gay--is now a punishable crime that rates jail time and not just a general discharge. Keep making things harder for the people you're trying to help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When you claim that he served, "100 years ago", then yes, you're attacking his service.
    No. If I said "he served badly 100 years ago," that would be attacking his service. But since I have no idea how well he served, I'm content to just attack him for being an angry, out-of-touch oldtimer.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    I enver said they shouldn't. I've explain how gays can be allowed to serve in the military.
    So they can serve as long as they adhere to your ridiculous restrictions that don't apply to heterosexuals. How generous of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    But keep going down the, "I'm going to insult every veteran that doesn't share my point of view, no matter how small minded and ignorant it may be", road. It may actually lead somewhere.
    Yep. I'm for equal civil rights for everyone, and that makes ME small-minded and ignorant.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-22-10 at 06:51 PM.
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I enver said they didn't. Wanna keep teaming up with Kandahar and creating statements that I never made?
    What statement did I create that you never made? You just jumped into the conversation I was having with Navy Pride like two posts ago.
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you have any evidence that that's the case? I haven't seen it.
    What would be the point in repealing DADT otherwise? I'm pretty sure this is part of the study if it isn't, there is a big problem that does need to be addressed.
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Oh puh-lease....you stare the facts right in the face and then deny their existence. You are fooling yourself if you believe that gays didn't serve in the military before DADT. Gays have always served. The only issue is whether they have to lie about it or whether they can be honest.

    Maybe my value system is screwed up, but I was taught to believe that given the choice between being honest or deceitful, it is better to be honest.
    you are so wrapped up in this "honesty" blanket you keep missing the freaking point. DADT or no DADT, with the military's ban on gays in place, gays cannot "honestly" serve in the military.

    That is the point you guys keep missing. the repeal of DADT will NOT allow gays to openly, honestly serve. the military ban on gays is still in effect and is a separate regulation from DADT.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What would be the point in repealing DADT otherwise? I'm pretty sure this is part of the study if it isn't, there is a big problem that does need to be addressed.
    to make a political statement and pander to gays and gay supporters for votes without actually changing anything?
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    A queen?

    I hear this is not uncommon with the homosexual community.
    I would not know.............
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    Re: 'Don't ask, don't tell' repeal in doubt

    and it really grinds my gears that damn near every one of you pro-gay dudes think that I am against gays simply because I point out the legitimate flaws with repealing DADT.

    I have been a unit commander and I suspected that several of my soldiers were gay. I didn't really give a rat's ass. DADT or not, as long as they were doing their job i wasn't going to make an issue of it.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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