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Thread: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

  1. #11
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Again, you cant compare nations on absolute numbers. It does NOT show the burden said giving is having on a nation. Hence per captia is the only way and here the US is at the bottom. So the previous post is not correct, it is based on right wing propaganda that is not backed up by facts.
    I agree with the previous poster.
    However, say I agree with you. Conservatives are more generous than liberals, so if we're not number 1 maybe you should give more.;-)
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Not true.

    The Most Generous Countries on Earth - NYTimes.com

    The US is only nr 5 according to this index.
    "Only nr 5"? Pretty damn impressive for such a large country with a geographically diffuse people with a quite bit more cultural diversity than the nations higher up on the list. One would assume Europe would make out pretty poorly if we were counted as one.

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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I see no reason the American taxpayer should be robbed to feed people in a country who hates us.
    Well, which countries are you referring to? Most sub-Saharan Africans are big fans of the United States. In India we aren't quite as popular, but I wouldn't say that the Indians hate us. I assume you're referring to Central and Southeast Asia? Perhaps feeding people in those countries would get them to STOP hating us. Studies have shown that whenever the USS Mercy visits a port, the residents in that region have a more favorable view of the United States.
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Not true.

    The Most Generous Countries on Earth - NYTimes.com

    The US is only nr 5 according to this index.
    That's an interesting list. I wonder why the Anglosphere rates so highly overall. I'm not trying to bash other nations, I'm genuinely curious. 5 of the top 5, and 7 of the top 10 have been ruled by the British at some point...I wonder what it is about that culture that encourages charity so much.

    It's also interesting that even desperately poor nations like Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Laos are able to give so much to others.
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    More of the same old same old, the futile continuance of those failed past policies.

    The Chinese are more clear-eyed!


    Africa

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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Well good for these countries to try and help the fight, but we all know as soon as France starts donating money they will find themselves in a problem and be forced to surrender.

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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    I support fighting world poverty, but not through the UN. Sending money to the UN would better be spent fueling a fire for homeless people, the warmth would do more good than funneling funds into a bloated hypocritical organization. To fight world poverty we would need to abolish governments that keep people under poverty (dictatorships, theocracies, socialist/communist nations, etc.)
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    More of the same old same old, the futile continuance of those failed past policies.

    The Chinese are more clear-eyed!


    Africa
    We could certainly learn a lot from the Chinese approach of treating Africa as a potential market and source of cheap labor, instead of as a problem to be solved. While the West is helping Africa solve their immediate health problems, China is providing a much better model for governance. Nations have begun to realize that the Chinese are only interested in investing in countries that provide some protection of private property.

    With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing aid, as long as it's getting to the people it needs to get to, and it's an effective way of spending the money. I don't think it's correct when some people (not you) say that "foreign aid to Africa hasn't worked." The results vary significantly depending on what the money is spent on, and in what countries. Even within the same countries, the results can vary a lot from one region to another. I think we'd be better off if we stop donating money to places and causes that don't work, and instead give it to those that do.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-21-10 at 10:57 AM.
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I support fighting world poverty, but not through the UN. Sending money to the UN would better be spent fueling a fire for homeless people, the warmth would do more good than funneling funds into a bloated hypocritical organization. To fight world poverty we would need to abolish governments that keep people under poverty (dictatorships, theocracies, socialist/communist nations, etc.)
    Unfortunately it isn't that simple. There are some relatively well-governed states (e.g. Mali) that are nevertheless destitute. Furthermore, even if you somehow abolished all oppressive governments, other oppressive governments would just take its place. Some societies are so dysfunctional that they just aren't going to default to anything resembling liberal democratic capitalism.

    This is partially why I think we're fighting a losing battle trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan/Pakistan. It's just not going to happen as long as the underlying social problems exist. That's no easy task to fix.
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    Re: France boosts pledge to fight world poverty, urges others to follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    We could certainly learn a lot from the Chinese approach of treating Africa as a potential market and source of cheap labor, instead of as a problem to be solved. While the West is helping Africa solve their immediate health problems, China is providing a much better model for governance. Nations have begun to realize that the Chinese are only interested in investing in countries that provide some protection of private property.

    With that said, there is nothing wrong with providing aid, as long as it's getting to the people it needs to get to, and it's an effective way of spending the money. I don't think it's correct when some people (not you) say that "foreign aid to Africa hasn't worked." The results vary significantly depending on what the money is spent on, and in what countries. Even within the same countries, the results can vary a lot from one region to another. I think we'd be better off if we stop donating money to places and causes that don't work, and instead give it to those that do.
    Yes, we should certainly provide aid when people are suffering but the west has poured trillions into Africa over the last 60 years and have little to show for it. And, as you say, it's usually not getting to the people who most need it.

    I think we agree that foreign aid should still go to African but in a radically different format than what has gone on in the past. There has to come a time when we realize that past policies aren't working and probably never will.

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