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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

ender1 said:
I do mind. If you want it then YOU pay for it. If its money out of my pocket because taxes go up then yes, my family has less.

Kinda suprised you and your dont take my money and give it away rhetoric is ok with this.
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Did your taxes go up or down under President Bush? What money was taken out of your pocket? You looking for a paycheck from the taxpayer?
 
Conservative said:
What money was taken out of your pocket? You looking for a paycheck from the taxpayer?
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Im keeping this as a responce for every "conservative" who posts something about entitlements.
 
ender1 said:
Do you deny that we give out billions in corn subsidies.
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I own a major farming operation. Subsidies were phased out last year if you had income beyond a certain point. I oppose subsidies btw.
 
ender1 said:
I do mind. If you want it then YOU pay for it. If its money out of my pocket because taxes go up then yes, my family has less.

Kinda suprised you and your dont take my money and give it away rhetoric is ok with this.
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your taxes go up because that is how the dems buy the votes of non tax payers

not because of farm subsidies
 
TurtleDude said:
your taxes go up because that is how the dems buy the votes of non tax payers

not because of farm subsidies
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that was not the question. Concervative denied that the government gave money out. That was one example I gave.
 
ender1 said:
What do you think of Monsanto
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I don't own any of it but a guy I used to work for right out of law school (RIP) has daughter who is one of their top enviro-lawyers.

I don't have a real opinion one way or another and while I went out with her a few times before she went to law school that doesn't affect my views on the company
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't own any of it but a guy I used to work for right out of law school (RIP) has daughter who is one of their top enviro-lawyers.

I don't have a real opinion one way or another and while I went out with her a few times before she went to law school that doesn't affect my views on the company
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They are evil and the lawyers are helping to destroy small farmers. What about THOSE businesses?

If "farmer A" plants a monsanto crop next to "Farmer B" and it cross polinates the crop in "farmer B"s field, they can be sue "Farmer B" for having monsanto product in thier fields. Often times "Farmer B" will loose his farm. Many, many farmers have lost their farms from this.

Dont even get me started on Fish/Corn hybrids
 
ender1 said:
They are evil and the lawyers are helping to destroy small farmers. What about THOSE businesses?

If "farmer A" plants a monsanto crop next to "Farmer B" and it cross polinates the crop in "farmer B"s field, they can be sue "Farmer B" for having monsanto product in thier fields. Often times "Farmer B" will loose his farm. Many, many farmers have lost their farms from this.

Dont even get me started on Fish/Corn hybrids
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really, being a trial attorney I find that hard to believe. the inheritance tax has destroyed alot of small farms. so have other regulations

around where I live, there were five 150+ acre farms

all subdivisions now-the owners died and the heirs sold the land. THe heirs didn't want to deal with all the bs and the land had skyrocketed in value
 
Conservative said:
Corn Subsidies** in the United States totaled $73.8 billion from 1995-2009.

How much is that a year? How much is the budget of the United States a year? Do subsidies hurt you and your family?
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Please cite your source that taxes went up because of corn subsidies? Unless taxes went up because of subsidies no money was taken out of your pocket. For the record I do not support govt. subsidies for any industry but also reject that apparent belief that Bush created these subsidies or had anything to do with them. So yes, you got me there subsidies were given to farmers but have been given to farmers for years prior to Bush taking office.

You seem to be grasping at straws all in an attempt to divert from the Obama record. Bush vs. Obama? Hmmm, tough choice, NOT! Still waiting for you to show how anything Bush actually did hurt you or your family. Further waiting for the legislation that Obama did that "brought us back" from the brink as he claimed? Seems to me that TARP brought us back from the bring and much of that was paid back. Where did that payback go since Obama wants to blame Bush for inheriting a deficit?
 
Conservative said:
It doesn't appear that you know what Bush did, billions given? You mean tax credits? What money did Bush give to business? If you get to keep more of what you earn is the govt. really giving you anything?

Spending on the Iraq War cost about 100 billion a year out of the 2.6-3.6 billion dollar Bush budgets over 8 years. How did that spending hurt you or your family?

You simply don't have a clue.
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You were insulting my and demanding and exmaple where President Bush gave money to business. I gave one and now you change the subject.

You were WRONG and tried to insult me by saying I had no clue. Admit it. Mr Conservative.
 
ender1 said:
You were insulting my and demanding and exmaple where President Bush gave money to business. I gave one and now you change the subject.

You were WRONG and tried to insult me by saying I had no clue. Admit it. Mr Conservative.
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I asked you how Bush policy hurt you and your family since you claim he caused the economic problems we have today. Further your comments aren't even close to the thread topic. You don't have a clue but continue to buy the rhetoric. Still waiting for an answer. Then tell me which party really cares how much money you get to keep, Democrats or Republicans?
 
TurtleDude said:
really, being a trial attorney I find that hard to believe. the inheritance tax has destroyed alot of small farms. so have other regulations

around where I live, there were five 150+ acre farms

all subdivisions now-the owners died and the heirs sold the land. THe heirs didn't want to deal with all the bs and the land had skyrocketed in value
Click to expand...

You may find it interesting to look into it. I have a good friend who is only a few years out of school/passing the bar. He is a patent lawyer and did his dissertation, or whatever that big paper is, on "getting a patent on Life". Monsanto has a patent on certain crops the create. They add dna to the seed and if that CODE is found by a farmer who did not pay for the seeds then they sue them. Even if they never intended for the seed to show up. Its a very interesting situation. and a little disterbing if you think about it.
 
Conservative said:
I asked you how Bush policy hurt you and your family since you claim he caused the economic problems we have today. Further your comments aren't even close to the thread topic. You don't have a clue but continue to buy the rhetoric. Still waiting for an answer. Then tell me which party really cares how much money you get to keep, Democrats or Republicans?
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No, you said "You mean tax credits? What money did Bush give to business?" and you also insulted me. I answered you and now you demand an answer to another thread and state that "I" am off topic. It was your question!
 
ender1 said:
No, you said "You mean tax credits? What money did Bush give to business?" and you also insulted me. I answered you and now you demand an answer to another thread and state that "I" am off topic. It was your question!
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Look, apparently it is important to you for me to admit that I made a mistake so yes, I made a mistake on that issue and it won't be the last time. That said you still haven't answered the direct question as to how Bush policies hurt you or your family? You mentioned subsidies as if those came right out of your pocket in the form of higher taxes. Guess I missed where the taxes went up due to those subsidies and you haven't shown that to be the case.

Further I asked you other questions but you ignored them preferring to blame Bush vs. the Congress that was controlled by the Democrats. It has been said that it took us 8 years to get into this mess when the reality is that 52 months of economic growth and job creation was part of that 8 years and the real problems began when the Demorats and Congress refused to regulate Fannie and Freddie per Bush's recommendations in 2005. The votes weren't there to do that on both sides of the aisle but Barney Frank and Chris Dodd led the charge.

Now you can deny history and you can continue to divert from the disaster in the WH right now but results matter, not rhetoric. Economic policy matters not feelings and your personal opinions. I fully support a pro growth, pro consumer, pro business economic policy to the one that Obama has implemented. Showing a comparison between economic results ignores the policies designed to reverse the course, Bush/Reagan policies were pro private sector and Obama's is pro public sector. The results Tuesday will show which way the public is leaning.
 
ender1 said:
My issues with President Bush's economic plan is much greater than just spending but we can start there.

Billions given to big business that makes huge profits even without it.
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I believe Conservative properly set you straight on that issue... jobs are what people want and many of them are created by "big business" which is far better than BIG GOVT. Limited govt is better for job creation unless we want everyone working for the USA Inc with Obama as the CEO.

Looking back... the best part of the Industrial Revolution is that it opened an age of mass production for the needs of everyone. The workers are no longer people grinding merely for other people's comfort/prosperity. They [employees] are the main consumers of the products mfg by the factories. Big biz depends upon volume consumption. Today, there's not one branch of big business that wouldn't cater to the wants and needs of the masses. What does the expansion of govt provide to the average american and their families?

The purpose of capitalist entrepreneurship is to provide for the common man.... and the common man as consumer controls whose buying or not buying which determines the fate of small and big business. That is directly related and essentially important to our economy. There is [in the market economy] no other way of acquiring and keeping wealth than by supplying the masses in the best and cheapest way with all the goods they want. Govt cannot do this and needs to stay the **** away from it...

BTW Your friend johnny must have went to get some popcorn in the 2nd "round" ...because I saw a knockdown and you didn't throw the punch.
 
ender1 said:
You may find it interesting to look into it. I have a good friend who is only a few years out of school/passing the bar. He is a patent lawyer and did his dissertation, or whatever that big paper is, on "getting a patent on Life". Monsanto has a patent on certain crops the create. They add dna to the seed and if that CODE is found by a farmer who did not pay for the seeds then they sue them. Even if they never intended for the seed to show up. Its a very interesting situation. and a little disterbing if you think about it.
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Brilliant. Good for them for finding a way to protect their intellectual property... at home and abroad.

If you don't want their seed, don't buy it. If you want it because it performs better; higher yield and pest resistant... then pay the piper that created it.

This stuff isn't freeware... and farmers spray atrazine after harvesting corn. Atrazine kills stuff dead... so they shouldn't have a problem with seed showing up... especially if they rotate crops.

.
 
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Obamanator said:
I believe Conservative properly set you straight on that issue... jobs are what people want and many of them are created by "big business" which is far better than BIG GOVT. Limited govt is better for job creation unless we want everyone working for the USA Inc with Obama as the CEO.

Looking back... the best part of the Industrial Revolution is that it opened an age of mass production for the needs of everyone. The workers are no longer people grinding merely for other people's comfort/prosperity. They [employees] are the main consumers of the products mfg by the factories. Big biz depends upon volume consumption. Today, there's not one branch of big business that wouldn't cater to the wants and needs of the masses. What does the expansion of govt provide to the average american and their families?

The purpose of capitalist entrepreneurship is to provide for the common man.... and the common man as consumer controls whose buying or not buying which determines the fate of small and big business. That is directly related and essentially important to our economy. There is [in the market economy] no other way of acquiring and keeping wealth than by supplying the masses in the best and cheapest way with all the goods they want. Govt cannot do this and needs to stay the **** away from it...

BTW Your friend johnny must have went to get some popcorn in the 2nd "round" ...because I saw a knockdown and you didn't throw the punch.
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What I find curious is how people can hammer Big Whatever, and then turn and look to government like some lovestruck Teenie.

Government is the Largest in these categories:

Creditor
Debtor Lender
Employer
Consumer
Contractor
Grantor
Property owner
Tenant
Insurer
Health-care provider
Pension guarantor

.
 
zimmer said:
What I find curious is how people can hammer Big Whatever, and then turn and look to government like some lovestruck Teenie.

Government is the Largest in these categories:

Creditor
Debtor Lender
Employer
Consumer
Contractor
Grantor
Property owner
Tenant
Insurer
Health-care provider
Pension guarantor

.
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yeah, the populists whine that corporations have too much power and the rich have too much wealth so their solution is to concentrate more power and more wealth in the hands of a few thousand bureaucrats and politicians

f'ing brilliant!
 
Weren't tax cuts part of the stimulus package?





Purrrrrrs
 
ender1 said:
They are evil and the lawyers are helping to destroy small farmers. What about THOSE businesses?

If "farmer A" plants a monsanto crop next to "Farmer B" and it cross polinates the crop in "farmer B"s field, they can be sue "Farmer B" for having monsanto product in thier fields. Often times "Farmer B" will loose his farm. Many, many farmers have lost their farms from this.

Dont even get me started on Fish/Corn hybrids
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How does that work? And what the hell crooked kind of judge would oversee something like that?

Also, I didn't know you could cross corn with fish. That conjures up all kinds of weird images...
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Weren't tax cuts part of the stimulus package?

Purrrrrrs
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Are these what liberals call tax cuts and what you thought Obama meant when he said he was cutting taxes for "95% of the American people?"

Obama tax cuts

Tax cuts

Total: $288 billion

Tax cuts for individuals

Total: $237 billion
• $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
• $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
• $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
• $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
• $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
• $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
• $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
• $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
• $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

Is there any wonder that the tax cuts didn't stimulate the economy, too targeted and limited. Many were income transfers from taxpayers to non taxpayers.
 
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