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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

Where does it say in our founding docs that the government is to play chief redistributor?

It says that right here:

Article One of the United States Constitution said:
“ The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
 
It's one reason those countries suck, and we're following suit.

Where does it say in our founding docs that the government is to play chief redistributor? Nowhere.

.

Here is the direction Boo and his ilk will take this country. I just don't understand how anyone can support this kind of tax structure.

Current European tax rates:
United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50% VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

France
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45% VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42% VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52% VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53% VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%
 
Here is the direction Boo and his ilk will take this country. I just don't understand how anyone can support this kind of tax structure.
Here is the direction Boo and his ilk will take this country. I just don't understand how anyone can support this kind of tax structure.

Current European tax rates:
United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50% VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

France
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45% VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42% VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52% VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58% VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53% VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%

It's in our founding docs... LOL... I didn't realize The Founders were Marxists. I guess that's why the fed income tax instituted in 1913 was...7% on incomes above $500,000 ($10 million 2007 dollars).

We've come a long way. Now it's time to roll back the Marxists.

.
 
It says that right here:



Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.


Sure you can be of further assistance. Tell us why it is that you are either purposely, or unwittingly misreading this clause?

Clause 18 as I read it states that Congress has the authority to make sure that the preceding clauses are followed to the letter. Not make **** up as they go, nor take increasing levels of taxation.

If you read clause 18 carefully it states:

" The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers..."

without going into long winded explanations about what is "proper and necessary" Lets focus on "Exceution of the foregoing powers"

To do that you start with the first clause:

"Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Now, please explain how redistribution of the countries wealth fits into uniform taxation?


j-mac
 
It's one reason those countries suck, and we're following suit.

Where does it say in our founding docs that the government is to play chief redistributor? Nowhere.

.

It's not new. We're not following suit, we've nearly always had some form of a progressive tax. Again, as most countries always have had. And no one has made any claim about redistributing anything. This is just more of the old unoriginal scare tactic your side is using right now. Don't confuse it with fact. ;)
 
That would help, but remember:

Even if the discussion is restricted to federal taxes (for which the statistics are better), a vast majority of households end up paying federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data suggests that, at most, about 10 percent of all households pay no net federal taxes. The number 10 is obviously a lot smaller than 47.

First time I have heard that 10% figure quoted. I agree quite different than the 47%. I would like to see how each of these numbers are calculated.
 
It's not new. We're not following suit, we've nearly always had some form of a progressive tax. Again, as most countries always have had. And no one has made any claim about redistributing anything. This is just more of the old unoriginal scare tactic your side is using right now. Don't confuse it with fact. ;)


So if everyone is jumping off a bridge, should we?

j-mac
 
First time I have heard that 10% figure quoted. I agree quite different than the 47%. I would like to see how each of these numbers are calculated.

I believe there are two issues here, one is Federal Income taxes which the IRS states 47% of the income earners have enough deductions not to pay any Federal Income Tax and total Federal income taxes which includes SS and Medicare that 10% of the income earners are not paying into and thus have no Federal Tax liability at all.
 
So if everyone is jumping off a bridge, should we?

j-mac

obama-lemmings.jpg
 
So if everyone is jumping off a bridge, should we?

j-mac

Don't be silly. But we aren't following anyone. We've been doing this mostly all along in some form. in thwe 1860's we had a progressive tax to pay for the awar, getting more from those who made more for example. Again, it isn't new and is part of our history.
 
Don't be silly. But we aren't following anyone. We've been doing this mostly all along in some form. in thwe 1860's we had a progressive tax to pay for the awar, getting more from those who made more for example. Again, it isn't new and is part of our history.

We have never had debt this high and approaching the total of our GDP. We have never had as radical of a President and Congress as we had the last two years. We have never had any Aministration prior to this one trying to implement the European Socialist model in this country. So Boo, it isn't the same now at all and the European Tax rates aren't that far away because this Administration will never cut spending and its attempts at wealth redistribution.

We have an angry Community Agitator in the WH and the only ones supporting him are the angry people who think anyone that has more than they have are the real problems in this country.
 
We have never had debt this high and approaching the total of our GDP. We have never had as radical of a President and Congress as we had the last two years. We have never had any Aministration prior to this one trying to implement the European Socialist model in this country. So Boo, it isn't the same now at all and the European Tax rates aren't that far away because this Administration will never cut spending and its attempts at wealth redistribution.

We have an angry Community Agitator in the WH and the only ones supporting him are the angry people who think anyone that has more than they have are the real problems in this country.

yet, you don't want to pay for the debt and are complaining that merely going back to rate we had before is too much of a burden. God forbid someone propose that we go to the highest rates we've paid in the past. That might cause a heart attack of something.

:lamo
 
yet, you don't want to pay for the debt and are complaining that merely going back to rate we had before is too much of a burden. God forbid someone propose that we go to the highest rates we've paid in the past. That might cause a heart attack of something.

:lamo

Why is it always about revenue going to the Federal govt. for you? Why is it that you never address spending and the waste, fraud, and abuse in that spending? we have 16 million plus unemployed in this country and raising taxes isn't going to make these people taxpayers again.

You just don't seem to get it. If tax rates go up, the rich are going to pay it but they are going to offset that increase by moving operations to lower tax states and that hurts state revenue making it a disaster. here is a good example

Caterpillar to build excavator plant in Texas | Chicago Breaking Business

How is the state of Illinois going to make up for the lost revenue that was generated from those jobs? Raise the Federal Tax rate and you are going to see more businesses move to lower tax states. TX is open for business and welcomes those new businesses and the jobs they bring to the state
 
Why is it always about revenue going to the Federal govt. for you? Why is it that you never address spending and the waste, fraud, and abuse in that spending? we have 16 million plus unemployed in this country and raising taxes isn't going to make these people taxpayers again.

You just don't seem to get it. If tax rates go up, the rich are going to pay it but they are going to offset that increase by moving operations to lower tax states and that hurts state revenue making it a disaster. here is a good example

Caterpillar to build excavator plant in Texas | Chicago Breaking Business

How is the state of Illinois going to make up for the lost revenue that was generated from those jobs? Raise the Federal Tax rate and you are going to see more businesses move to lower tax states. TX is open for business and welcomes those new businesses and the jobs they bring to the state

Becasue it is a strawman. No one is arguing for waste and fraud. Until someone does, there is no debate one it.
 
Becasue it is a strawman. No one is arguing for waste and fraud. Until someone does, there is no debate one it.

So as long as there is waste, fraud, and abuse of our revenue going to the Federal Govt, you support sending more revenue to the Federal Govt. so they can waste more? Wonder if this makes any sense to others?

Why would anyone support sending more money to the Federal Govt. to waste? That is true liberalism
 
So as long as there is waste, fraud, and abuse of our revenue going to the Federal Govt, you support sending more revenue to the Federal Govt. so they can waste more? Wonder if this makes any sense to others?

Why would anyone support sending more money to the Federal Govt. to waste? That is true liberalism

Yes, as everythign will always have some waste, fraud, and abuse. Private business has those things as well. We can't wait for perfect to pay our bills. And we always keep working on imporving and combating waste, fraud, and abuse.
 
Yes, as everythign will always have some waste, fraud, and abuse. Private business has those things as well. We can't wait for perfect to pay our bills. And we always keep working on imporving and combating waste, fraud, and abuse.

You don't pay for the waste, fraud, and abuse of private business unless you continue to buy from them. The comparison isn't close.
 
You don't pay for the waste, fraud, and abuse of private business unless you continue to buy from them. The comparison isn't close.

The hell you don't. It isn't like we know about it in advance.
 
You don't pay for the waste, fraud, and abuse of private business unless you continue to buy from them. The comparison isn't close.


From what I have seen for the most part it is private business/individuals that are trying to rip off the American Government.eg medicare medicaid fraud. 700$ hammers, etc.
 
From what I have seen for the most part it is private business/individuals that are trying to rip off the American Government.eg medicare medicaid fraud. 700$ hammers, etc.

How is that helped by increasing the bureaucracies that missed it in the first place?


j-mac
 
From what I have seen for the most part it is private business/individuals that are trying to rip off the American Government.eg medicare medicaid fraud. 700$ hammers, etc.

Have you got an MBA, are you a professional economist? If not, you only have an amateur opinion, not facts...

ricksfolly
 
Have you got an MBA, are you a professional economist? If not, you only have an amateur opinion, not facts...

ricksfolly

Not sure that is required for that claim. Sorry.
 
Again, the 47% number is inaccurate. Most do pay taxes. Only 10% pay no federal tax. If you want to whine that we have a progressive tax, as we have had and as nearly all countries have, go ahead. But be factually correct in your whining. ;)

Granted... the group you belong too and/or advocate for; pays federal taxes on their booze and tobacco. Thats just about all the TAX they pay the feds. But then it kinda goes against the grain to pay income taxes on money the govt gives you... from others who earn it for you.
 
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Granted the group you advocate for pays federal taxes on their booze and tobacco. Thats just about all the TAX they pay the feds.

That's a tad condesending don't you think?
 
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