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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Need? Want? who decides which is which? By what standard?

    I call for us to cut spending and raise taxes. How much and what of each is something that needs to be hammered out, but that should be our focus. BVut I will give you one thing, you can't be serious about cutitng spending unless you discuss SS and Medicare/medicaid, but I would add the military. As for the founding fathers, I'm not sure any of us actually know what they would support if they were here today.
    I will never support raising taxes until the size of the Federal govt. is cut to the level where it only provides the services required by our Founders. There is no evidence that when you send more money to D.C. that it is spent responsibly. the more they get, the more they spend. If they are going to waste our money then I believe the American people deserve to keep more of their own money.

    I have a pretty good idea what our Founders would think today by the way they acted when the drafted the Constitution. They knew that power corrupts and thus supported a small central Govt. That says it all.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I will never support raising taxes until the size of the Federal govt. is cut to the level where it only provides the services required by our Founders. There is no evidence that when you send more money to D.C. that it is spent responsibly. the more they get, the more they spend. If they are going to waste our money then I believe the American people deserve to keep more of their own money.

    I have a pretty good idea what our Founders would think today by the way they acted when the drafted the Constitution. They knew that power corrupts and thus supported a small central Govt. That says it all.
    We don't live in that century. The founding fathers allowed for change and growth. It is ahrdly as clear as you think that they would not have grown with us, and done exactly the same or even more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We don't live in that century. The founding fathers allowed for change and growth. It is ahrdly as clear as you think that they would not have grown with us, and done exactly the same or even more.
    The logic and common sense of the Founders is something missing today. For some reason you and others seem to believe that social issues can be handled by a large central govt. instead of the states. For some reason you seem to be more concerned about how much money goes to the federal govt. than how they spend that money. It isn't logical to believe that a bureacrat in Washington D.C. can solve a social problem in Midland, TX but that a bureacrat in Austin, TX can and should.

    That is the logic of our founders and they were right on.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    There are very simple solutions, slash the size of govt. and return all social programs to the states. Pretty simple.
    Most states are worse off than the government, and cutting back on Fed help will make it worse. Not only simple, fact.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Most states are worse off than the government, and cutting back on Fed help will make it worse. Not only simple, fact.

    ricksfolly
    Then that is a state issue, it is called taking responsibility for their own actions and poor management. Why is it in the liberal world there is no such thing as failure. let them go bankrupt and rebuild.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then that is a state issue, it is called taking responsibility for their own actions and poor management. Why is it in the liberal world there is no such thing as failure. let them go bankrupt and rebuild.
    That's it really. The whole damn principle of republic is based on the philosophical idea of free market theory. States compete for constituents as much as Wal Mart does for shoppers.


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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then that is a state issue, it is called taking responsibility for their own actions and poor management.
    What's done is done. Regurgitating it over and over again is like locking the barn door after the horse is stolen...

    ricksfolly

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    What's done is done. Regurgitating it over and over again is like locking the barn door after the horse is stolen...

    ricksfolly
    Then declare bankruptcy and start over. There is no reason to bail out unions when it is more important to put people back to work. The horse not only has been stolen, it is at another farm running in a stakes race making money for someone else. If you are losing money at what you do, who bails you out?

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The logic and common sense of the Founders is something missing today. For some reason you and others seem to believe that social issues can be handled by a large central govt. instead of the states. For some reason you seem to be more concerned about how much money goes to the federal govt. than how they spend that money. It isn't logical to believe that a bureacrat in Washington D.C. can solve a social problem in Midland, TX but that a bureacrat in Austin, TX can and should.

    That is the logic of our founders and they were right on.
    If the founding fathers thought that all the problems could be handled by the states, why did they bother with a central government? They could have just left all power in the individual states and let them form militias for their local defense.

    I'm thinking that, if you want to know what the founding fathers untented when they wrote the Constitution, it is more enlightening to read what they wrote rather than to try to divine their intent based on ones own biases.

    The founding fathers were split on how much power the federal government should have, much as we are split today. This dichotomy is written into the Constitution.

    Since the Bill of Rights is often considered to reflect the mind of the Founding Fathers (although written by the First Congress) it is informative to note that they left out the word "expressly" from the 10th.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are expressly reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    Leaving out that word makes this sufficiently ambiguous that the federal government could expand its powers if it was "necessary and proper" or if it seemed to interfere with the use of the commerce clause.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    If the founding fathers thought that all the problems could be handled by the states, why did they bother with a central government? They could have just left all power in the individual states and let them form militias for their local defense.

    I'm thinking that, if you want to know what the founding fathers untented when they wrote the Constitution, it is more enlightening to read what they wrote rather than to try to divine their intent based on ones own biases.

    The founding fathers were split on how much power the federal government should have, much as we are split today. This dichotomy is written into the Constitution.

    Since the Bill of Rights is often considered to reflect the mind of the Founding Fathers (although written by the First Congress) it is informative to note that they left out the word "expressly" from the 10th.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are expressly reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    Leaving out that word makes this sufficiently ambiguous that the federal government could expand its powers if it was "necessary and proper" or if it seemed to interfere with the use of the commerce clause.
    I am really concerned about how leftwing the West Coast has become as it doesn't matter what the results are the people there will keep smoking or drinking the "strange" stuff. Anyone that would insinuate that the Founding Fathers were split on how much power the Central Govt. should have doesn't really know much about history and our Founding Fathers. There were a FEW who believed in a large Central Govt. but that wasn't in the original Constitution which by its words stated the kind of govt. they were creating. Using the words in the Preamble "Provide" and "Promote" as they did says it all. PROVIDE for the Common Defense and PROMOTE the Domestic Wefare answers your question as to the role of the Central Govt. and what our Founders envisioned.

    States united for the common defense and a govt. promoting through policy domestic welfare tells it all. Do you really want a bureaucrat in D.C. telling the people of Washington what to do about a welfare issue. Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the people of Washington? The problem is power corrupts and Congressional Representatives have the power and have expanded the role of the govt. way beyond its original intent.

    Seems you run when challenged, still waiting for a response on the Clinton surplus and a response to the facts about the U.S. Debt.

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