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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Since when has a "liberal" politician tried to abolish capitalism and make the economy completely state owned? And since when has a "conservative" politician actually tried to reduce the size of government and reduce government spending?

    As for my professors who "aren't qualified", lol, maybe I should just go by what ma pappy taught me when we used ta hunt and fish bout dem damn librals!
    Paid any attention to current events, bailouts, takeovers, increased regulations, massive growth in govt, wealth redistribution. Unfortunately there hasn't been a "conservative" in the WH for decades but the alternatives to GHW Bush, Bob Dole, GW Bush, and John McCain were much worse. That is irrelevant now because we have a radical in the WH who has taken Bush spending and put it on steroids

    You definitely have an attitude, good luck with that. I spent 35 years in the business world and employed thousands. Those with an attitude like yours failed so good luck.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    I wonder if it was the conservatives or the liberals who wanted to abolish slavery?
    Doubt it was the "Father of Liberalism" John Locke who had slaves.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Paid any attention to current events, bailouts, takeovers, increased regulations, massive growth in govt, wealth redistribution.
    To say that reflects anti-capitalism is a gross exaggeration. Let me guess, you think Obama is communist right? Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Unfortunately there hasn't been a "conservative" in the WH for decades
    That's the smartest thing you've said so far. And that's my whole point. "Libs" "Dem" "Repubs" "Neocons", none of them are doing what they should be, they are all spending too much, all support big government, and both Bush and Obama signed bailouts. Choosing parties is elementary and the notion that Mccain would have done any better for this economy than Obama is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You definitely have an attitude, good luck with that. I spent 35 years in the business world and employed thousands. Those with an attitude like yours failed so good luck.
    You've been alive a long time, so that means you won't be around too much longer. Good. Most people who voted for Mccain, who oppose gay marriage, who oppose the legalization of marijuana, who supported the war in Iraq, are older people. Once your generation dies off the world will be a much better place.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Johnny DooWop;1059065254]To say that reflects anti-capitalism is a gross exaggeration. Let me guess, you think Obama is communist right? Lol.
    Nope, a socialist which is close. His resume shows it but resumes don't matter to ideologues

    That's the smartest thing you've said so far. And that's my whole point. "Libs" "Dem" "Repubs" "Neocons", none of them are doing what they should be, they are all spending too much, all support big government, and both Bush and Obama signed bailouts. Choosing parties is elementary and the notion that Mccain would have done any better for this economy than Obama is ludicrous.
    Yes, Bush bailed out, Obama took over, there is a difference. The loans Bush gave to GM weren't a takeover, Obama took over the company to save the unions.

    We will never know about McCain, but I do know that McCain wouldn't have created a 862 billion dollar stimulus program that bailed out union pension funds and did nothing to grow or stimulate the private sector. I do know that McCain would have worked to extend the Bush tax cuts on all taxpayers and that is pro growth and pro individuals. I do know that McCain wouldn't have supported a 1.29 trillion deficit and believe that McCain would have used the repaid TARP funds to pay down the deficit.

    You've been alive a long time, so that means you won't be around too much longer. Good. Most people who voted for Mccain, who oppose gay marriage, who oppose the legalization of marijuana, who supported the war in Iraq, are older people. Once your generation dies off the world will be a much better place.
    LOL, spoken like a true selfish, arrogant liberal. Hope I am around when you grow up and realize just how "right" you have been on the real issues. I have a daughter who thought just like you believing that her dad wasn't very smart and she had all the answers. She graduated from college and once out in the working world she realized her dad wasn't that stupid and got it right. She and I are closer now than ever before. You have a long way to grow but I assure your parents you too will grow up.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, spoken like a true selfish, arrogant liberal. Hope I am around when you grow up and realize just how "right" you have been on the real issues. I have a daughter who thought just like you believing that her dad wasn't very smart and she had all the answers. She graduated from college and once out in the working world she realized her dad wasn't that stupid and got it right. She and I are closer now than ever before. You have a long way to grow but I assure your parents you too will grow up.
    Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of "conservative" financial policies, just not all of them. The problem is, they come wrapped in a Republican package that includes xenophobia, jingoism, ultra-aggressive foreign policy, social conservatism based on Christianity, and even a little bit of racism (yes, polls show a larger number of Republicans hold racist beliefs than either Democrats or independents.) I like the Republican party Abe Lincoln created. The party you represent today is a completely different animal.

    As for the conservative economics, I love the idea of lower taxes but don't think they should be implemented unless the spending is also cut, or else we end up in a deficit. I love the idea of cutting government spending but Republicans don't actually do that, they only preach it. People say that Obama spent more than Bush but they don't calculate the cost of the two wars we are in that Bush initiated that has cost almost a trillion dollars and is expected to reach 2 trillion when everything is said and done. Hell, look at how much Reagan spent when he was in office, and he is a conservative deity. I like the idea of government not meddling too much into businesses, but at the same time, when you let them do whatever the hell they want, we get business practices that are very unfriendly and even manipulative to the average consumer and we get bubble economies that eventually burst.

    True, us youngins can be naive but you old folks can be very single-minded. Think for yourself instead of only on party lines. Its not only the "liberals" who are ruining the economy and when you realize that you'll be a better man for it. John Mccain and Sarah Palin are jokes. Most republicans don't even like John Mccain and I think you are more qualified to be vice president than Sarah Palin. She is the most uneducated politician in existence. You only voted for them because you despise everything Obama stands for. Whether that's really because you disagree with all of his policies or because you are obsessed with party loyalty, only you know.

    The greatest politician living today comes from your state, and his name is Ron Paul. Even though he is more fiscally conservative than any other GOP politician who ran in '08, you guys wouldn't back him because he wanted a non-interventionist foreign policy.
    Last edited by Johnny DooWop; 10-27-10 at 04:15 PM.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    I wonder if it was the conservatives or the liberals who wanted to abolish slavery?
    Ask you dead, slave trading hero.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of "conservative" financial policies, just not all of them. The problem is, they come wrapped in a Republican package that includes xenophobia, jingoism, ultra-aggressive foreign policy, social conservatism based on Christianity, and even a little bit of racism (yes, polls show a larger number of Republicans hold racist beliefs than either Democrats or independents.) I like the Republican party Abe Lincoln created. The party you represent today is a completely different animal.

    As for the conservative economics, I love the idea of lower taxes but don't think they should be implemented unless the spending is also cut, or else we end up in a deficit. I love the idea of cutting government spending but Republicans don't actually do that, they only preach it. People say that Obama spent more than Bush but they don't calculate the cost of the two wars we are in that Bush initiated that has cost almost a trillion dollars and is expected to reach 2 trillion when everything is said and done. Hell, look at how much Reagan spent when he was in office, and he is a conservative deity. I like the idea of government not meddling too much into businesses, but at the same time, when you let them do whatever the hell they want, we get business practices that are very unfriendly and even manipulative to the average consumer and we get bubble economies that eventually burst.

    True, us youngins can be naive but you old folks can be very single-minded. Think for yourself instead of only on party lines. Its not only the "liberals" who are ruining the economy and when you realize that you'll be a better man for it. John Mccain and Sarah Palin are jokes. Most republicans don't even like John Mccain and I think you are more qualified to be vice president than Sarah Palin. She is the most uneducated politician in existence. You only voted for them because you despise everything Obama stands for. Whether that's really because you disagree with all of his policies or because you are obsessed with party loyalty, only you know.

    The greatest politician living today comes from your state, and his name is Ron Paul. Even though he is more fiscally conservative than any other GOP politician who ran in '08, you guys wouldn't back him because he wanted a non-interventionist foreign policy.
    One of the best pieces of advice ever given to me came from Ronald Reagan when he said, "trust but verify." You made some claims above that aren't accurate and can be refuted by simply going to non partisan sites to check results. I grew up a Democrat and was very similar to you, believing what I was told. Reagan's words hit home so that is when I learned to go to sites like bea.gov, bls.gov, U.S. Treasury sites to verify what I have been told. The findings were quite an eye opener.

    Democrats always told me that tax cuts caused deficits and that the govt. really needed the money to help those truly in need. Sounded right to me because if you cut taxes less money would go to the govt, right? Wrong, when tax rates were cut money to the govt grew according to the checkbook of the United States, the U.S. Treasury. Now how can that happen. Let's see, bea.gov. helped me there as did bls.gov. BEA.gov gave me the four components of GDP with the number one being personal consumption meaning consumer spending. When people had their taxes cut they had more spendable income and did so. That created demand and demand means more jobs. BLS showed what happened after taxes were cut. Instead of having one person paying less taxes we had two or three people paying taxes thus more tax revenue. Make sense to you?

    Once that myth fell, tax cuts causing deficits, I started questioning other things like how can a bureaucrat in D.C. take care of a local social issue? They can't thus they want things to remain the same with them in control. Social problems are best handled by local officials and charities, not the Federal govt. It is all about personal responsibility and not govt. responsibility.

    Now as for Obama, it is his policies that are being rejected, massive growth in the size of the govt, massive regulations, economiic lies and distortions, all verified by non partisan sites. For all the spending Bush did, Obama put that spending on steroids. Bush didn't have trillion dollar deficits. Bush didn't take over GM or sign a stimulus plan that bailed out union pension funds.
    f
    now I could go on through your items line by line but you get the drift, trust but verify and when you verify go to non partisan sites. Something to think about Obama had a 3.8 trillion dollar budget for fiscal year 2010. The wars you are talking about were 100 billion dollars a year so think about it, 100 billion dollars a year didn't create the 1.29 billion deficit Obama had this fiscal year.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You made some claims above that aren't accurate and can be refuted by simply going to non partisan sites to check results.
    If you really want we can play a little game called "source for source". For your statistics that you claim refute the things I said, I can find non-partisan statistics refuting many of the things you just said, especially when it comes to Republican vs Democratic spending and the effect cutting taxes has on a deficit. However I'm sure you have better things to do and I really need to be studying for midterms. So we'll just see each other from across the trenches in the next civil war.

    BTW, to everyone else, I'm conducting a study, I'm going around threads to see if every topic eventually melts down into a conservative/republican vs liberal/democrat debate instead of staying on the topic. This one melted on the first page.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    If you really want we can play a little game called "source for source". For your statistics that you claim refute the things I said, I can find non-partisan statistics refuting many of the things you just said, especially when it comes to Republican vs Democratic spending and the effect cutting taxes has on a deficit. However I'm sure you have better things to do and I really need to be studying for midterms. So we'll just see each other from across the trenches in the next civil war.

    BTW, to everyone else, I'm conducting a study, I'm going around threads to see if every topic eventually melts down into a conservative/republican vs liberal/democrat debate instead of staying on the topic. This one melted on the first page.
    What would you expect this thread to do with the topic as it is?

    As for my sources vs. yours, if you have a source better than bea.gov, bls.gov, or the U.S. Treasury then please offer them. What better source for the deficit and revenue is the U.S. Treasury which is the checkbook of the United States? I doubt anyone can come up with a better source than the actual checkbook.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What would you expect this thread to do with the topic as it is?

    As for my sources vs. yours, if you have a source better than bea.gov, bls.gov, or the U.S. Treasury then please offer them. What better source for the deficit and revenue is the U.S. Treasury which is the checkbook of the United States? I doubt anyone can come up with a better source than the actual checkbook.
    "Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain has said that the major tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003 have "increased revenues." He also said that tax cuts in general increase revenues. That’s highly misleading.

    In fact, the last half-dozen years have shown us that we can't have both lower taxes and fatter government coffers. The Congressional Budget Office, the Treasury Department, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the White House’s Council of Economic Advisers and a former Bush administration economist all say that tax cuts lead to revenues that are lower than they otherwise would have been – even if they spur some economic growth. And federal revenues actually declined at the beginning of this decade before rebounding. The growth in the past three years that McCain refers to brings revenues back in line with the 40-year historical average as a percentage of gross domestic product.

    It’s unclear how much of the growth can be attributed to the tax cuts. Capital gains tax receipts did increase greatly from 2003 to 2006, but the CBO estimates that they will level off and decrease in the next few years. The growth overwhelmingly resulted from a sharp rise in corporate tax receipts, the cause of which is a topic of debate."

    FactCheck.org: Supply-side Spin

    Like I said, I'm all for lower taxes but claiming that they increase revenue is not accurate and doing it without cutting government spending ludicrous.

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