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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    OK, fine. You agree with Obama and say to the retirees "Screw you !"

    Good to know that you and Obama both believe in the old "let them eat cake" saying.
    No, I say if you have a propblem retiree, it's with GM who opperated a company poorly and failed. This required them to need us to bail themout, and GM put them in the position they are in, not Obama.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I say if you have a propblem retiree, it's with GM who opperated a company poorly and failed. This required them to need us to bail themout, and GM put them in the position they are in, not Obama.
    Really?? You don't know much about how bonds work do you?? I suggest you do a little of that fact finding and proof that you demand of everyone but yourself.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really?? You don't know much about how bonds work do you?? I suggest you do a little of that fact finding and proof that you demand of everyone but yourself.
    I know enough to know who brough this problem to their doorstep. it wasn't Obam. It was GM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know enough to know who brough this problem to their doorstep. it wasn't Obam. It was GM.
    Did GM make the bonds worthless, then giving the money owed to the bondholders to the union ???

    Nope, didn't think so.
    Yet Secretary Timothy Geithner and his auto task force, led by Steven Rattner, have somehow decided that Treasury and UAW chief Ron Gettelfinger will get to own a combined 90% of GM. If there's a reason other than the political symbiosis among the Obama Administration, Michigan Democrats and the auto union, it's hard to discern. From now on let's call it Gettelfinger Motors, or perhaps simply the Obama Motor Company, though in the latter they'd have to change the nameplates.

    The biggest losers here are GM's bondholders. According the Treasury-GM debt-for-equity swap announced Monday, GM has $27.2 billion in unsecured bonds owned by the public. These are owned by mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds and retail investors who bought them directly through their brokers. Under Monday's offer, they would exchange their $27.2 billion in bonds for 10% of the stock of the restructured GM. This could amount to less than five cents on the dollar.

    The Treasury, which is owed $16.2 billion, would receive 50% of the stock and $8.1 billion in debt -- as much as 87 cents on the dollar. The union's retiree health-care benefit trust would receive half of the $20 billion it is owed in stock, giving it 40% ownership of GM, plus another $10 billion in cash over time. That's worth about 76 cents on the dollar, according to some estimates.

    In a genuine Chapter 11 bankruptcy, these three groups of creditors would all be similarly situated -- because all three are, for the most part, unsecured creditors of GM. And yet according to the formula presented Monday, those with the largest claim -- the bondholders -- get the smallest piece of the restructured company by a huge margin.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Can't comment on your quoted part because I don't have a link to follow, but yes, GM is to blame. They put the compnay in the position it was in and sought the government to save them. The fault lies with GM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Can't comment on your quoted part because I don't have a link to follow, but yes, GM is to blame. They put the compnay in the position it was in and sought the government to save them. The fault lies with GM.
    Well, since you readily admitted not reading links, I didn't bother posting one.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Well, since you readily admitted not reading links, I didn't bother posting one.
    Not what I said. I said I didn't read random links not related to an argument I'm involved in. This is what hurts your side the most, conmprehension.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not what I said. I said I didn't read random links not related to an argument I'm involved in. This is what hurts your side the most, conmprehension.
    Ahh, so Prof's links showing that Angle did well in the debate with Reid had nothing to do with the topic of a thread titled "Reid on the Ropes in Nevada". Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Ahh, so Prof's links showing that Angle did well in the debate with Reid had nothing to do with the topic of a thread titled "Reid on the Ropes in Nevada". Yep, that makes a lot of sense.
    I wasn't arguing with the Prof. In fact, he rarely makes an argument or point. If I were debating him, and he offered a claim, I would read his support. Again, comprehension is important.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I wasn't arguing with the Prof. In fact, he rarely makes an argument or point. If I were debating him, and he offered a claim, I would read his support. Again, comprehension is important.
    So you only read and debate with certain peoply on a thread, not every one that has a point or comment ???

    Very strange, but I guess that let's you pick and choose who to "argue" with. Those that proove you wrong can be simply ignored, right ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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