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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #551
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    All I am saying that it would make sense to do this thing as a package. This will insure that there is some balance. Also we do not know what exactly this committee will recommend. For all I know they will say that there should be another level of taxes for people over $5 million at a 60% rate. Ot they recommend a VAT tax, etc.
    A VAT is what the early predictions are, and that would be destructive at this point here as well. People don't have the money to buy things now, and this top loaded committee hand picked by Obama is going to possibly make things worse.

    As for a 60% tax rate on the rich, what do you think that would do to where they invest their money? Think they would keep it here, or take it off shore to lower tax havens?


    So we are two months from the date the president set for these folks to report out. We do not even have a budget for 2010-2011 yet.
    We didn't have a budget for last year either because the demo's didn't want to show what we now know was yet another 1.3 TRILLION dollar spending spree.

    I would like to see the comittee's recommendations voted like the base closings staight up or down. The process gets screwed up by changing tax policy before the vote.
    Before we make the tax code more complicated, why not scrap the entire thing and make it easier.

    j-mac
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now follow along here....If taxes on the top say 10% of income earners are what you say drives the economy in this country, and you want to raise their rates, heck I've seen credible liberals say to 90% or higher, then how is it that 47% of people not paying anything is acceptable to you? Shouldn't everyone pay?
    No! Remember it was President Bush who was responsible for taking many of those tax payers (millions) off the tax rolls.



    First you have to understand what you are talking about. That highly leveraged paper as you call it, was in response to liberals putting the CRA on steroids then threatening regulators in congress for ringing the warning bell about Fannie, and Freddie. Remember this?
    That a right wing myth. The CRA involved only community (Hence its name) banks and didn't require them to take risks, only lower interest rates. You can't blame this mess on low income people, that's stubidity.




    Now you can argue that it is all the banks fault, and I would say that an era of abandon did rule in the 90s and early to mid 2000s, but it wasn't without politicians, mostly liberal, egging them on so that they could have their vision of everyone owning a house, forget that they couldn't afford the house they wanted. Now you want to turn and blame the banks for developing a way to hedge their losses that they knew was going to be a result of this unbridled buying? That is really jaw dropping.
    President Bush Oct 12, 2002:
    790 KABC: 2002 President Bush Speech Offering Road to Home Ownership


    Look, you probably don't even realize that it is your money, and my money through savings that makes up the lion share of the capital needed for banks to make loans. That worthless paper as you put it allows banks to lend the money needed to buy things. But you seem to just want big daddy government to take care of everyone. Tell me, where will the government get the money as the rich flee?
    Your kidding right? The rich own a vast portion of the wealth in the country, why would the flee?


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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No! Remember it was President Bush who was responsible for taking many of those tax payers (millions) off the tax rolls.




    That a right wing myth. The CRA involved only community (Hence its name) banks and didn't require them to take risks, only lower interest rates. You can't blame this mess on low income people, that's stubidity.





    President Bush Oct 12, 2002:
    790 KABC: 2002 President Bush Speech Offering Road to Home Ownership




    Your kidding right? The rich own a vast portion of the wealth in the country, why would the flee?
    because they can still own all that and not be subjected to parasitic tax policies

    why should they stay when there are so many people who think as you having so many votes?



  4. #554
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    because they can still own all that and not be subjected to parasitic tax policies

    why should they stay when there are so many people who think as you having so many votes?
    The U.S. has close to the lowest tax rates in the world, hardly parasitic.


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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Explain what? Agian, you did not give historical information or factual information, but instead said if they SAY this, it must be so.



    Investment analyst Linda Traynham in her opinion writes:

    Again, opinion. Where's the evidence to support the opinion?



    This only states that the argument has gained traction. Again, no factual evidence to support that it effects the economy.




    I know asking for factual evidence means you place people in boxes. So, don't let anything stop you. But, you have not given factual information.





    If you look, there's even a thread on one such study.

    Tax breaks aren't a good way to create jobs.

    That's the central point of a study released this week by the backers of Proposition 24, a state ballot initiative that would roll back three business tax breaks approved by the Legislature in 2008 and 2009.

    Study: Tax breaks hurt, don't help - DailyBulletin.com

    (1) In a 2002 article in the National Tax Journal by William Gale and Samara Potter concluded that the Bush tax cuts reduced the size of the economy. As we have stressed in these posts, the distinction between debt-financed and budget-neutral tax cuts is crucial:


    Our results do not show that reductions in tax rates have no effect, or negative effects on economic behavior. Rather, the improved incentives--analyzed in isolation--unambiguously increase economic activity, by raising labor supply, human capital, and private saving. Indeed, these factors raise the size of the economy by almost 1 percent. But [the 2001 tax cut] is a set of incentives-- financed by a reduction in public saving. The key point for understanding the growth effects is that the tax-induced increase in private saving is a only a small faction of the decline in public saving, so that [overall] national saving falls substantially. The decline in national saving reduces the capital stock, even after adjusting for international capital flows, by sufficient amounts to reduce GDP and GNP.

    tax.com: Tax Cuts Kill Jobs, Part 2

    Similarly, a series of tax cuts in 2003 fell far short of targeted job growth. The Bush administration claimed the tax cuts would create 1.4 million jobs, in addition to some 4.1 million jobs expected to be generated over an 18-month period. But EPI tracked the initiative and found that not only did the additional 1.4 million jobs not appear, but the 4.1 million jobs that had been expected without the tax cuts never materialized either. By the end, the economy only saw an additional 2.4 million jobs added to the economy.

    Tax cuts won’t create jobs

    From your article:

    The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office this year analyzed the short-term effects of 11 policy options and found that extending the tax cuts would be the least effective way to spur the economy and reduce unemployment. The report added that tax cuts for high earners would have the smallest “bang for the buck,” because wealthy Americans were more likely to save their money than spend it.

    News Headlines
    Research and Ideas for Shared Prosperity...I'm sure there's no bias there at all. Socialist garbage in, socialist garbage out.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No! Remember it was President Bush who was responsible for taking many of those tax payers (millions) off the tax rolls.
    Mr. Brauer you are making the same mistake the Obama administration makes. In terms of attempting to turn everything into political stew, you ask those of us in here, of which I believe can rub two brain cells together, to suspend disbelief, and pay no attention to our own lying eyes.

    I agree, and I am sure that most of America would agree that in the years of 2000 to 2008 the Repubs became enamored with big government, and spending policies that could only be described as 'liberal like' in their scope.

    We (repubs) drank the kool aid that the libs were pushing. Remember the time, I do. Liberals were telling repubs that they needed to be more like them if they wanted to hold on to power. Meanwhile we ignored the voters in 2006, and continued down that liberal path, then the crash in housing came something that I even posted a hearing about that you ignored completely to continue your line, and we paid for being liberal lite at the polls in '08.

    Now you want to blame the entire thing on repubs and rewrite history. Bull****!



    Watch it this time.


    That a right wing myth. The CRA involved only community (Hence its name) banks and didn't require them to take risks, only lower interest rates. You can't blame this mess on low income people, that's stubidity.
    I suggest you read up on it a bit, you seem to know nothing of it by your statement here.

    Your kidding right? The rich own a vast portion of the wealth in the country, why would the flee?
    Because they can. The rich are above all a pragmatic group of people. If a country is starting to persecute them, take their wealth like socialists, and blame them for the country's ills, then why would they stay? Did the wealth of Cuba stay in Castro's rise?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Research and Ideas for Shared Prosperity...I'm sure there's no bias there at all. Socialist garbage in, socialist garbage out.
    I'm sorry, but nothing there is socialism. Can I recommend a good dictinary for you? or perhaps a history book?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #558
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sorry, but nothing there is socialism. Can I recommend a good dictinary for you? or perhaps a history book?
    Nothing there is socialism? Are you for real? have you even read their agenda?

    Overview | Agenda for Shared Prosperity

    Karl Marx could have written this tripe.

    EPI is a marxist organization that has its tentacles into our government sadly.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nothing there is socialism? Are you for real? have you even read their agenda?

    Overview | Agenda for Shared Prosperity

    Karl Marx could have written this tripe.

    EPI is a marxist organization that has its tentacles into our government sadly.


    j-mac
    J be serious. And for Pete's sakes guys, try to be original. And if you say it is socialist, this means it's socialist? Come on j. Just because some are concerned about everyone doesn't mean they are socailist.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #560
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J be serious. And for Pete's sakes guys, try to be original. And if you say it is socialist, this means it's socialist? Come on j. Just because some are concerned about everyone doesn't mean they are socailist.

    Ofcourse it doesn't, but when you have a group like this partnering with Unions, and other Marxist outlets like Apollo project to write the stimulus bill, and when you have language on their own website that is in line with every bit of wealth redistribution transformation BS coming out of the WH, then yes sir, they are indeed cowardly Marxists.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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