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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #461
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sorry you struggled with this j, it isn't really difficult. Are you trying to implant your spin on it?
    No, I am coming at you from a point in which I was actually alive, and living in Michigan at the time of the 1979 Carter bailout of Chrysler, and he didn't take over the auto company to do it. The only reason I can see for Obama to do this the way in which he has is to give ownership of the company to the unions and ensure a hand in dictating what they build in terms of so called 'Green cars'.

    In any case, no one claims there was only one way to do it. That's your strawman and nothing more. We've given before, and loaned before. The results have always been we got nothing for it. So, stay with the actual argument. No one argued there was no other way. Just that this was a valid way.
    Explain what you mean by "valid"? Because if there were a less intrusive way to go about it, I am sure that the American people would have preferred that to a take over.

    I'm always impressed j in how often you and those on your side given me someone elses spin to support the spin you use. Someone sharing your opinion, skewed as it is, is not evidence of it actually ahppening. You merely support my view that you shouldn't expect everyone to accept univerisally the same poison you willingly swallow.
    You don't have to Joe, that is what is great about this country for the time being. You can continue to believe your own misguided spin being fed you by Axlerod, and we can continue to smack you down with the facts.


    j-mac
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Great article here Joe, I suggest you read it, in it's entirety....You may learn something.


    Obama & State Takeover By Union: Syndicalism


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    worst august in 27 years

    a september gain only compared to an anemic 9-09

    54% of americans are disposed against association with gm, resentful of govt bailout

    for taxpayers to break even gm must reach 70B market value

    initial shares are projected at 134

    "the price needed for a full recovery of the us investment is far higher than gm shares have ever reached"

    "analysts and govt officials have expressed doubt that the us will ever recover its investment"

    the best assurance obama can give is his "holding out the prospect" of the taxpayer being made whole

    the best any of the pundits (LOL!) can muster is "cautious optimism"

    even at 134 the intial price is below the actual cost to taxpayers

    hopefully, the discounted entrance which is higher than gm has ever sold for, even in its best days, will "help allay investor concern in the face of the slow recovery of the us economy and flat auto sales"

    gm's credit rating is 3 levels below investor grade

    gm faces a 26B pension shortfall

    gm's own draft prospectus says that weak economic and market conditions "continue to impact sales"

    gm veep don johnson says he expects "a slow recovery in auto sales," that "sales will pick up only modestly thru the rest of the year"

    despite $3700 discounts per vehicle, gm had its worst august since 1983

    after the worst august in your adult lifetime, ford increased sales 46% in september, chrysler 61, gm 11

    BUY!

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    by the way, the ENTHUSIASM GAP is in-your-face REAL

    probably the highest funciton performed by this forum, which in its heyday was the most elevated, intellectual, free and refreshing political chatroom i, a veteran of many, had ever experienced, is to allow members, by entering into debate or simply by observing, to gauge a real measure of what's going on NOW in american politics, the gist of the arguments, the lay of the land

    of course, all forums, after considering their sources, provide this opportunity, and this one still does as well

    and what i'm seeing is---where have all the lib heavyweights gone?

    it appears that those remaining in the obamite camp around here are mostly the taunting punks and mindlessly pale posers, ghost thin and lacking substance

    my side of the aisle is still manned by guns, young and old, and the controversies---this gm ipo being but an example---appear to be going mostly one sided

    the most serious former obamites these days are confined mainly to the pages devoted to personalities

    it is what it is

    i can fully understand---there's NOTHING a serious obamite can say, can do or propose

    from health care to the stimulus to the pusillanimous punt on the bush tax cuts...

    the economy, the jobs reports, the growing despair which looks angrily to washington no more for answers but for change...

    the polls, the 1000 or so campaigns currently raging which will determine control of our legislatures...

    afghanistan, the middle east peace talks, global warming, don't ask don't tell...

    the white house management team, the president's comprehensive lack of vision, inspiration, leadership, mere competence...

    you can see it in the president's stumps---he tells his own supporters to quit whining, he attacks the opposition for its gargantuan money advantage

    he knows it's not working, but he has NO other cards, NONE

    he's completely checkmated, and he did it to himself

    the absence of heft demonstrated on these pages on behalf of the obamite camp speaks volumes

    it reveals a leadership which has shot its wad on every conceivable issue, is stuck with what it's done, has no way out, and dreads the consequences it sees coming its way

    carry on

  5. #465
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Great article here Joe, I suggest you read it, in it's entirety....You may learn something.


    Obama & State Takeover By Union: Syndicalism


    j-mac
    I keep telling you j, garbage in equals garbage out.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #466
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I am coming at you from a point in which I was actually alive, and living in Michigan at the time of the 1979 Carter bailout of Chrysler, and he didn't take over the auto company to do it. The only reason I can see for Obama to do this the way in which he has is to give ownership of the company to the unions and ensure a hand in dictating what they build in terms of so called 'Green cars'.
    J, because you can only see one reason, because you have a blind spot, isn't eqaul to it being the only reason. your own bias hinders you, as it does with most of us. It takes real effort to look beyond our biases. But, as a helpful hint, anything that starts out like this: I Unions & Marxist Politics.

    Well, it gives you a good indictation of clear bias and opinion making rather than anything factual.


    Explain what you mean by "valid"? Because if there were a less intrusive way to go about it, I am sure that the American people would have preferred that to a take over.
    Oh, I doubt anything would make some (yourself for example) happy. In reality, there has been that much intrusion. All ther eis in reality is a mechinaism for repayment, and maybe even some hope GM will improve itself.


    You don't have to Joe, that is what is great about this country for the time being. You can continue to believe your own misguided spin being fed you by Axlerod, and we can continue to smack you down with the facts.


    j-mac
    You miss the point yet again. you offered no evidence, but someone sporting the line. I don't offer Axlerod's opinion as support. If I did, I would be doing what you're doing, or more accurately, if I used Moveon or Obeman's opinion as my support, I'd be doing what you're doing. Opinion is not evidence. It is opinion, only as strong as the support it has to offer.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    Great article here Joe, I suggest you read it, in it's entirety....You may learn something.

    Obama & State Takeover By Union: Syndicalism

    j-mac
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I keep telling you j, garbage in equals garbage out.
    Is there really doubt in your mind that President Obama favors unions, and that they've influenced his policies and decisions? Really?

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts


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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    I could not get your link to work, but here's the article...
    Union workers would be exempt from Dem health care tax | Washington Examiner

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Is there really doubt in your mind that President Obama favors unions, and that they've influenced his policies and decisions? Really?
    Favor? Don't know. But that is a far cry from J's unsupported claim. I favor blonds, but don't discriminate against any other hair color. To support J's claim he has to actually provide evidence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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