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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #451
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, be honest. Did we get any of our money back in the past?
    Yes.

    Congress passed the bill 21 December 1979, but with strings attached. Congress required Chrysler to obtain private financing for $1.5 billion -- the government was co-signing the note, not printing the money -- and to obtain another $2 billion in "commitments or concessions [that] can be arranged by Chrysler for the financing of its operations." One of those options, of course, was reduce employees wages; in prior discussions, the union had failed to budge, but the contingent guarantee moved the union.

    What Was The Chrysler Bailout? - Political History: The Chrysler Bail Out
    All the stock purchase did was give a mechanism to get our money back, not a bad thing.
    Obama didn't have to do it that way.

    Any of claim is dishonest.
    No, it isn't.

    The US is not running GM.
    No, the union is, with stock ownership given for political payback. Any other claim is dishonest.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    [QUOTE=j-mac;1059034265]
    Yes.


    Obama didn't have to do it that way.
    Of course there were other ways, but forfitting on a note wouldn't be a first. Stocks might well have been a better way.
    No, it isn't.



    No, the union is, with stock ownership given for political payback. Any other claim is dishonest.


    j-mac
    Yes, I know your spin, but it is meaningless without support. Don't expect everyone to accept univerisally the same poison you willingly swallow.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #453
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Of course there were other ways, but forfitting on a note wouldn't be a first. Stocks might well have been a better way.
    No, it isn't.
    this is disjointed, and incoherent, could you clean it up so that I can understand what you are saying here?

    Yes, I know your spin, but it is meaningless without support. Don't expect everyone to accept univerisally the same poison you willingly swallow.
    It's not spin Joe, it is what happened. You know facts? Though they can be pesky for liberals it is what went on....

    Everything you need to know about the nightmare of government-controlled busi nesses can be found in a damning new inspector-general's report on how and why the Obama administration forced Chrysler and General Motors to oversee mass closures of car dealerships across the country.

    Under the guise of "saving" the US auto industry through a taxpayer-funded bailout now topping $80 billion, President Obama's bureaucrats pushed the car companies to eliminate thousands of jobs -- with unjustified haste using dubious economic models.

    The bungling of the auto bailout - NYPOST.com
    Private Chrysler Stock Given to Unions in Auto Bailout
    When the government bailed out Chrysler motors, stock owned by private citizens was given to unions, breaking the Constitution’s Contract Clause. Writes the WS Journal,

    The Obama administration’s behavior in the Chrysler bankruptcy is a profound challenge to the rule of law. Secured creditors—entitled to first priority payment under the “absolute priority rule”—have been browbeaten by an American president into accepting only 30 cents on the dollar of their claims. Meanwhile, the United Auto Workers union, holding junior creditor claims, will get about 50 cents on the dollar.

    Obama & State Takeover By Union: Syndicalism

    Don't expect the facts to change just because they are inconvenient for you Joe.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    this is disjointed, and incoherent, could you clean it up so that I can understand what you are saying here?
    I'm sorry you struggled with this j, it isn't really difficult. Are you trying to implant your spin on it?

    In any case, no one claims there was only one way to do it. That's your strawman and nothing more. We've given before, and loaned before. The results have always been we got nothing for it. So, stay with the actual argument. No one argued there was no other way. Just that this was a valid way.


    It's not spin Joe, it is what happened. You know facts? Though they can be pesky for liberals it is what went on....
    Don't expect the facts to change just because they are inconvenient for you Joe.


    j-mac
    [/QUOTE]

    I'm always impressed j in how often you and those on your side given me someone elses spin to support the spin you use. Someone sharing your opinion, skewed as it is, is not evidence of it actually ahppening. You merely support my view that you shouldn't expect everyone to accept univerisally the same poison you willingly swallow.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Facts are only facts, when presented by your side. If the opposition supplies them, they are 'spin'.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Facts are only facts, when presented by your side. If the opposition supplies them, they are 'spin'.
    An opinion is not a fact. That you don't seem to kknow that may be a concern.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    An opinion is not a fact. That you don't seem to kknow that may be a concern.
    Says the man who apparently knows everything.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    An opinion is not a fact. That you don't seem to kknow that may be a concern.
    another dem poster would beg to disagree with you


    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    My opinion is not opinion. Everything I said was fact. .



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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Says the man who apparently knows everything.
    I know the difference between fact and opinion. That's not that special. Everyone really should know that much.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #460
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    another dem poster would beg to disagree with you
    So? Why do you think this changes anything? here is still a real difference between fact and opinion no matter who you quote.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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