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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #441
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    holding out the prospect, huh?

    that taxpayers could be ultimately paid back in full?
    If they sell the stock over a significant period of time, there is a possibility, coupled with dividends that tax payers could make a profit like they did on the Visa and Chrysler bailouts. But if we get out now, there's no way that the proceeds from the sales will break even. So we can get out now like people like you want and lose money, or stick it out over a couple years and net some gains from dividends.

    well, i'm glad the president didn't slam shut THAT door
    Didn't you want government out of GM ASAP?

    and those flat auto sales.
    You mean like a 22% increase? Flat you say. I question your (and everyone else here)'s capacity to do basic math.

    i've expressed no preferences, i've merely quoted the pundits (LOL!) from reuters and the post
    You're not fooling anyone here.

    bloomberg, your link (thanks):
    Proving what? Do you even understand what that means? I seriously doubt it.

    But many of the other problems are gone. I see you deliberately ignored those. Really, have you just stopped caring that your extreme partisan behavior isn't concealed anymore?

    not as much as those analysts and govt officials and pundits (LOL!) at wapo, bloomberg and reuters

    That begs the question if you even bothered to read the articles
    . The only people laughing here are those laughing at you.

    nowhere near well enough to recoup 70B
    Only if you have no idea what a dividend is. Which is highly likely.

    Ford has more problems then GM. Tell me, what was the percent gain Ford had in the past year?

    Not that you bother to look up anything relevant anyways.

    not enough reason for most to invest
    LOL. Apparently a massive % increase isn't "a reason for most to invest."

    I guess turning $1.6 into $13 isn't something you'd be in on.

    You really have no idea what actually happened do you?

    I see you are still failing at looking up GM's position in Asia.

    Can you define CASH FLOW for me? I'm betting not.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 10-10-10 at 07:49 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #442
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    If they sell the stock over a significant period of time, there is a possibility, coupled with dividends that tax payers could make a profit like they did on the Visa and Chrysler bailouts.
    a possibility, huh?

    obama calls it, "holding out a prospect"

    Didn't you want government out of GM ASAP?
    "the obama administration has pledged to exit its investment in gm as quickly as possible while holding out the prospect that taxpayers could ultimately be paid back in full"

    You mean like a 22% increase? Flat you say.
    no, that'd be the financial times

    "gm's market share dropped to 19.1% from 19.4% in january-august 2009"

    "the draft prospectus for gm's ipo warns that 'many of the economic and market conditions that drove the [earlier] drop in vehicle sales, including declines in real estate and equity values, increases in unemployment, tightened credit markets, depressed consumer confidence and weak housing markets, continue to impact sales.'"

    FT.com / Companies / Automobiles - GM sales dip casts shadow over IPO

    I question your (and everyone else here)'s capacity to do basic math.
    who cares, this isn't about you

    You're not fooling anyone here.
    it's not about me, grow up

    Proving what? Do you even understand what that means? I seriously doubt it.
    3 levels below investment grade, a pension shortfall of 26B, what's to prove?

    But many of the other problems are gone.
    the pensions remain, as do declines in real estate, increased unemployment, tight credit and depressed consumer confidence, all of which are "continuing to impact sales" (according to gm's prospectus)

    "ford's senior economist said the carmaker interpreted recent data 'as a moderation of the pace of recovery, but not a collapse"

    Ford has more problems then GM.
    ford doesn't owe the taxpayer 50B

    Apparently a massive % increase isn't "a reason for most to invest."
    an increase over the worst august in 30 years isn't much to get excited about

    Can you define CASH FLOW for me? I'm betting not.
    quit personalizing, you're demeaning yourself and everyone who reads this

    Toyota, GM, Ford Sales Slump as Buyers Shun New Cars - Bloomberg

    GM executives expect a slow recovery in the economy and in auto sales, said Don Johnson, GM vice president of U.S. sales operations. He said sales rates will pick up only modestly through the end of the year. He said that GM will not respond to the slow recovery with incentive deals.

    “We know it’s going to continue to be bumpy,” Johnson said on a conference call today. “We’re not panicking. We don’t want to get back to putting incentives into the marketplace to keep plants going.”

    Compared with a year earlier, GM reduced its incentives and sold vehicles for an average of $5,600 more, Johnson said.

    That doesn’t match with TrueCar’s analysis, which found that GM increased sales discounts 18 percent to $3,763 per vehicle in August.
    BUY!

    buy a cruze, get a discount

    buy the stock, make a killing

    hurry!
    Last edited by The Prof; 10-10-10 at 09:59 AM.

  3. #443
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    a possibility, huh?

    obama calls it, "holding out a prospect"
    Yeah. Between capital gains and dividends, there's a distinct possibility. Do the math. Seriously. Stop being so lazy. Examine future cash flows. Examine growth overseas. Do the math. Do your homework. Jesus. The sheer lack of any effort in your posts is alarming.

    "the obama administration has pledged to exit its investment in gm as quickly as possible while holding out the prospect that taxpayers could ultimately be paid back in full"
    So they're basically going to get as much money as they can over as short of a period as possible. What I'd expect. And what is responsible. Apparently Obama being responsible is bad to you.

    no, that'd be the financial times
    Which is reporting sales from parts of the worst of the recession. Missing the notion of "context" are we?

    If you look at recent news, you find a different picture.

    Car sales up from '09: September numbers hint at cautious optimism | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal

    Furthermore, you are looking solely at the American market. I KEEP telling you to research GM's China and South America positions which you repetitively refuse to do.

    who cares, this isn't about you
    But it is partially about your inability to do math.

    it's not about me, grow up
    The funny thing is you think you're fooling anyone into thinking you're not a hyper partisan.

    3 levels below investment grade, a pension shortfall of 26B, what's to prove?
    Know the difference between bonds and stocks? (I'm betting not)

    the pensions remain
    In a significantly smaller form. Furthermore, Ford has the same problem. I see you haven't looked up Ford's stock price over the last year. Why are you so adamantly against research?

    as do declines in real estate, increased unemployment, tight credit and depressed consumer confidence, all of which are "continuing to impact sales" (according to gm's prospectus)
    If you look at the past 6 months. Tell me, can you project future cash flows when the variables you are looking at aren't the same as the incoming ones? No. You cannot. So why do you think you can do just that?

    GM's Shanghai sales up 57 pct in first 8 months - International Business Times

    Shanghai General Motors saw its auto sales rise 57 percent to 641,351 units in the first eight months of2010, the company said in a statement on Wednesday.
    Brazil accounts for 10 percent of GMs global sales volume and the carmaker has made a profit in the country for five years, Ardila said. Rising income and favorable loan conditions are helping GM accelerate growth from about 9 percent currently.
    General Motors Predicts 68% Jump in Brazil Sales - Bloomberg

    Hmmmm. A partial reason why your argument is so poor is because you refuse to address anything but historical North American data.

    "ford's senior economist said the carmaker interpreted recent data 'as a moderation of the pace of recovery, but not a collapse"
    I wasn't aware that the only market GM operated was in North America. Please show me how this is true. 44% of GM's sales are overseas. Aside from Europe are relatively profitable.

    ford doesn't owe the taxpayer 50B
    It owes its banks $27.4 billion. Furthermore, GM's "debt" is not actually bonds. Unlike Ford's banks who can actually force a bankruptcy, GM's "debt" is largely preferred shares. Learn the difference. GM can simply not issue dividends. Ford cannot miss a payment. That is radically different for cash flow.

    an increase over the worst august in 30 years isn't much to get excited about
    Which basically proves you will never happy with anything because it's a Democrat in office.

    quit personalizing, you're demeaning yourself and everyone who reads this
    LOL. Is that the best you got? I get it. You don't know cash flows means. It's okay.

    And your links says what exactly to support your argument? Is GM only going to be selling cars for 1 more year?

    I guess you still aren't in on turning $1.6 into $13. Btw, that's the price increase Ford's stock saw.

    I see you are still failing at looking up GM's position in Asia.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #444
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    cautious optimism?

    LOL!

    how bully bully bullish!

    U.S. auto sales rose last month compared to an unusually weak September 2009 when demand dried up after the federal Cash for Clunker rebates.

    Ford reported selling 46 percent more vehicles last month and Chrysler's increase was 61 percent. General Motors saw its sales rise 11 percent while Toyota reported sales rose 17 percent.

    Automakers said they were not getting excited about the sales bump.

    I would not read too much into sales increases in September,” Ford Vice President of Marketing Ken Czubay said of disruption from auto-buying incentives. “We are in a tough period to try to make sense of year-to-year comparisons.”

    Still, he added the economy appears to be improving slightly.

    GM's U.S. sales chief, Don Johnson, agreed.

    Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive of Edmunds.com, an auto website, said he's less optimistic, doubting that new-vehicle sales can maintain the current pace.

    Reports of the recovery have been vastly exaggerated,” Anwyl said. “Without Labor Day, September was a weak month — —and because it was so late in the month, it gave an unusually high boost to September because sales did not bleed into August.”
    http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...tious-optimism

    BUY!

  5. #445
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    It's quite pathetic how much of my posts you will ignore to suit your bias.

    Shanghai General Motors saw its auto sales rise 57 percent to 641,351 units in the first eight months of2010, the company said in a statement on Wednesday.
    SAO PAULO, Aug 18 (Reuters) - Industrywide automobile sales in South America should reach a record high this year, buoyed by relatively low interest rates in some countries and strong economic growth in most of the region, the chief executive of General Motors' South American unit said on Wednesday.
    UPDATE 1-GM exec sees record industrywide S.America sales | Reuters

    It's exceptionally sad that you only look at what suits your views.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #446
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is the other reality.

    "But regardless of what any of us think should be, no politician was going to let them fail. And if one did, that politician would be unemployed the next election cycle"

    This not allowing any business to fail is a rather new concept to the United States and obviously not a healthy one for the people. It's amazing to me that there are so many who speak out against "Big Business" on the one hand who appear to support their bailouts with the other.

    So you are a fan of large multinational corporations then?

    The Tea Party is against bailouts while you and many others are for them. The line appears clear enough.
    How many times has the autio industry been bailed out? It's no that new.

    And it is not support for bailing them out that I'm arguing. I'm merely noting reality. Our leaders have more to fear from us, the voter, if they don't bail these people out than if they do. We're a fickle bunch. Hard to ever make us happy on these types of issues. there's a real disconnect with the voter.

    And no, the tea party is just angry and incoherent. There against bailouts, but want the government to do something; against big government, but don't want their government programs touched. They're a sad sign of our times and the disconnect I speak of.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #447
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    It's not a matter of credibility. It's recent history.
    If it is a false reading of histroy, then credibility matters. You can't honestly show what you claim.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #448
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    but wait a minute, wasn't it also Obama and liberals that preached that the Bush tax cuts were "only for the rich"? You can't have it both ways there.


    j-mac
    Another misreading of the argument. I know such isreadings make silly comments easier, but the argument was that the rich benefitted more and not that there were only cuts to the rich.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #449
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How many times has the autio industry been bailed out? It's no that new.

    And it is not support for bailing them out that I'm arguing. I'm merely noting reality. Our leaders have more to fear from us, the voter, if they don't bail these people out than if they do. We're a fickle bunch. Hard to ever make us happy on these types of issues. there's a real disconnect with the voter.

    And no, the tea party is just angry and incoherent. There against bailouts, but want the government to do something; against big government, but don't want their government programs touched. They're a sad sign of our times and the disconnect I speak of.

    Mornin' Joe....heh, heh....See that I made a funny! Anyway, let's go back to the time that GM and Chrysler were bailed out. As well as the other times that Chrysler was on the take from the government.

    Was it in the past, or necessary now for the government to own the stock?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  10. #450
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Mornin' Joe....heh, heh....See that I made a funny! Anyway, let's go back to the time that GM and Chrysler were bailed out. As well as the other times that Chrysler was on the take from the government.

    Was it in the past, or necessary now for the government to own the stock?

    j-mac
    J, be honest. Did we get any of our money back in the past? All the stock purchase did was give a mechanism to get our money back, not a bad thing. Any of claim is dishonest. The US is not running GM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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