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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #271
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Notice the word you use, "reports." Who is reporting this? And how do they know? I'm sorry, but when people are willing to spend, some one will step up and meet that demand. Business is never too scared to make a buck. Shooting yourself in the head because you're uncertain that someone might step on your toe is just too silly to accept. I'm sorry.

    Wow! I am stunned at your lack of willingness to even have an honest conversation about this.

    Ok, here we go:

    Quote Originally Posted by PBS
    TOM HUDSON: One word describes the mood of American businesses these days Susie -- uncertainty. Many companies we reported are flush with cash, but they`re not spending it or using it to hire workers because they`re uncertain about the outlook on a host of important issues.

    SUSIE GHARIB: You know Tom, whether it`s taxes, new regulations or health care reform, executives aren`t sure how these policies will impact their businesses. And many economists are saying that uncertainty is a significant obstacle to economic recovery.

    The Impact of Uncertainty on Business | Nightly Business Report | PBS
    Quote Originally Posted by CS Monitor
    In a sobering assessment of the US economy Wednesday, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke told the Senate banking committee that employment growth will be weaker than previously expected and that "the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain."

    Ben Bernanke sees uncertainty. Businesses report growth. - CSMonitor.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Businessweek
    “The minute someone puts out a green light, and earnings constituted a green light, you’ll see people rushing back into risk markets,” El-Erian said. “The indicators that we look at suggest that the economy continues to lose momentum. The key is going to be ultimately is the economy creating enough jobs to make people comfortable, to allow companies to invest?”

    Bernanke said on July 21 in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee that “the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain.”

    El-Erian Says ‘Noisy’ Reports Indicate Uncertainty: Tom Keene - BusinessWeek
    Quote Originally Posted by FOXNews
    Katie Mahoney of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which opposed the health care legislation, says employers are waiting to see all the rules on how the law will be implemented.

    For now, "there is a cloud of uncertainty as to what employers and plans and individuals need to do to comply with the law and the regulations," she said.

    FOXNews.com - Large Companies Faced With Uncertainty Over Effects of New Health Care Law
    Tax hikes, New regulations, Sweeping changes in what business is required under law to pay for employee health care mandates (which BTW, is a tax) are stifling growth. It is a fact.

    Now dispute it.

    j-mac
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Laws....do we really need more.
    I was stuck at the DMV and searched the Blackberry App Store for something to do.
    I found a game that lets me throw shoes at former President Bush Jr. and Bush Sr.
    It is named 2010 DC and is available on the Blackberry App world.
    God Bless the First Amendment

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by grolch View Post
    Laws....do we really need more.
    I was stuck at the DMV and searched the Blackberry App Store for something to do.
    I found a game that lets me throw shoes at former President Bush Jr. and Bush Sr.
    It is named 2010 DC and is available on the Blackberry App world.
    God Bless the First Amendment

    All that hate will shorten your life expectancy.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! I am stunned at your lack of willingness to even have an honest conversation about this.

    Ok, here we go:









    Tax hikes, New regulations, Sweeping changes in what business is required under law to pay for employee health care mandates (which BTW, is a tax) are stifling growth. It is a fact.

    Now dispute it.

    j-mac
    J, speaking of honest, where is your objective data as evidence of your point? You offer as you always do someone saying this as if it the person is not to be questioned at all. provide any historical evidence that business will refuse to make a buck over taxes (notice that is different than uncertainty, though I don't buy that change either).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Oh, and j, let's look at your articles closer. Notice what they cite as the concerns:

    One big factor is the euro area's debt crisis, which has caused investors worldwide to rein in risk and pull back from investments in stocks. Another is the stubborn contraction of bank lending, especially to small business.

    "Small businesses, which depend importantly on bank credit, have been particularly hard hit," Bernanke told the committee.

    Ben Bernanke sees uncertainty. Businesses report growth. - CSMonitor.com

    “The minute someone puts out a green light, and earnings constituted a green light, you’ll see people rushing back into risk markets,” El-Erian said. “The indicators that we look at suggest that the economy continues to lose momentum. The key is going to be ultimately is the economy creating enough jobs to make people comfortable, to allow companies to invest?”

    Bernanke said on July 21 in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee that “the economic outlook remains unusually uncertain.”

    Average increases of 100,000 private-sector jobs a month this year has been “insufficient to reduce the unemployment rate materially,” Bernanke said. The Fed cut its growth outlook as Europe’s fiscal crisis has led to “a broad-based withdrawal from risk-taking in global financial markets,” he said.

    El-Erian Says ‘Noisy’ Reports Indicate Uncertainty: Tom Keene - BusinessWeek

    the NPR piece is about republicans sharpening their position, and the Fox piece is about retirement funds being cut. None of the articles support your position, so what was that about an honest discussion?
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 09-28-10 at 12:12 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    The new Census data will hopefully bring them back home to reality.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're find up until your third point. More profit does not automatically mean more jobs. More people buying means more jobs, not profits from tax cuts. You simply fall for a unsupported claim without digging deeper to find objective proof to support your claim. There is no evidence that tax cuts result in jobs. In fact, the most recent study says they don't. We have a thread on it somewhere.
    I don't know what "most recent study" you're referring to, but I suspect something similar to Obama's line: "I can't find a single expert who disagrees with me on....(fill in the blank with whatever the policy push du jour is)..."

    "Most recent study" aside, any expert who says that profits don't promote job creation has either a socialist agenda, sh*t-for-brains, or both. Anybody who thinks taxes don't have a direct impact on profits (not pointing any fingers here...) just might have a severe outbreak of ACI disorder.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    I don't know what "most recent study" you're referring to, but I suspect something similar to Obama's line: "I can't find a single expert who disagrees with me on....(fill in the blank with whatever the policy push du jour is)..."

    "Most recent study" aside, any expert who says that profits don't promote job creation has either a socialist agenda, sh*t-for-brains, or both. Anybody who thinks taxes don't have a direct impact on profits (not pointing any fingers here...) just might have a severe outbreak of ACI disorder.
    No one said that. So, first you have to be more accurate about what is being said. People who pay taxes often make profits as well. I am saying, however, that actual profits come from selling the product or the service, and not from taxes. Business always has overhead, which includes taxes, and yet still manage to succeed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You said people buying don't matter (supply and demand) and that taxes do.
    He didn't say that "people buying don't matter". He said that profit is the driving force behind job creation (not demand or supply), which is the same thing I'm saying. I might have a cultivated field full of wheat, and people would surely buy it from me. If I can't make a profit by cutting it and selling it, I'll let it rot. I certainly won't hire somebody to help me cut it.

  10. #280
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    He didn't say that "people buying don't matter". He said that profit is the driving force behind job creation (not demand or supply), which is the same thing I'm saying. I might have a cultivated field full of wheat, and people would surely buy it from me. If I can't make a profit by cutting it and selling it, I'll let it rot. I certainly won't hire somebody to help me cut it.
    Supply and demand is directly related to profit. If the demand is higher, which is the area we're discussing, there will be a need for more jobs and people will be hired. If the demand is low, I'll still seek to make a profit, but I won't hire. If taxes make my p[rofit higher, I still won't hire if there is no demand for more servicees or product. I'll just make more money. Demand is what determines the need to hire and not profit alone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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