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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #201
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    I can't find anything supporting your claim:

    Under current law, the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts nearly all expire in 2011, returning the individual income tax to its pre-2001 level (except for a few permanent changes). In defining the baseline for his budget, the president assumes that, rather than ending in 2011, the tax cuts will become permanent. From that baseline, he would increase taxes in 2011 for high-income taxpayers—couples with income over $250,000 and single people with income above $200,000.

    Specifically, he would raise the top two tax rates back to their pre-2001 levels, change the income threshold for the next-to-highest rate, reinstate the personal exemption phaseout and the limitation on itemized deductions, and impose a 20 percent tax rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends.

    Those tax increases would essentially leave income tax rates for high-income taxpayers at the levels scheduled after 2010 under current law although the incomes defining the next to highest tax rate would change. People with qualified dividend income would pay less tax because the proposed 20 percent rate would be lower than their regular tax rate, the rate that would apply to dividend income if Congress let the 2001-2003 tax cuts expire. Others would pay more tax because the 20 percent rate on capital gains exceeds the 18 percent rate that would apply to gains on assets held more than five years and because the phaseout of personal exemptions would begin at a lower income than under current law.

    TPC Tax Topics | 2010 Budget -* Tax Increases on High-Income Taxpayers

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #202
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can't find anything supporting your claim:

    Under current law, the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts nearly all expire in 2011, returning the individual income tax to its pre-2001 level (except for a few permanent changes). In defining the baseline for his budget, the president assumes that, rather than ending in 2011, the tax cuts will become permanent. From that baseline, he would increase taxes in 2011 for high-income taxpayers—couples with income over $250,000 and single people with income above $200,000.

    Specifically, he would raise the top two tax rates back to their pre-2001 levels, change the income threshold for the next-to-highest rate, reinstate the personal exemption phaseout and the limitation on itemized deductions, and impose a 20 percent tax rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends.

    Those tax increases would essentially leave income tax rates for high-income taxpayers at the levels scheduled after 2010 under current law although the incomes defining the next to highest tax rate would change. People with qualified dividend income would pay less tax because the proposed 20 percent rate would be lower than their regular tax rate, the rate that would apply to dividend income if Congress let the 2001-2003 tax cuts expire. Others would pay more tax because the 20 percent rate on capital gains exceeds the 18 percent rate that would apply to gains on assets held more than five years and because the phaseout of personal exemptions would begin at a lower income than under current law.

    TPC Tax Topics | 2010 Budget -* Tax Increases on High-Income Taxpayers
    its a tax hike

    why are you unwlling to pay the same rate as I do?

    if you are unwilling to do that you are a hypocrite for demanding that of others

    BBL



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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its a tax hike

    why are you unwlling to pay the same rate as I do?

    if you are unwilling to do that you are a hypocrite for demanding that of others

    BBL
    That wasn't what I responded to. You said we'd return to Esienhower's 90 something percent. We're not. That's a factual point.

    I don't oppose a progressive tax which means I pay more than some, and assuming your honest about your income you pay more than me. I don't begruge those below me as I do better overall than they do and can afford more. I see no reason to feel sorry for you. When asked who should do the heavy lifting, I always answer those who can. I can lift more some and do so freely. And some can liift more than I can.

    This is not new here or arond the world. most countries have soem form of a progressive tax. it is part of the burden of being aomng the elite. Enjoy. Its still far better than being among the very poor.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #204
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well I pay three times more in federal income taxes alone than what you make. I sure don't use ten times as many federal services as you do. My family, even with sophisticated estate planning has paid millions in estate taxes--what did we get for that?
    Sure you do. You earn enough bread that you pay $300K in taxes, and you spend a good deal of time here at DP? That's just too funny, I need to put my boots on.


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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    you fail to understand, or deliberaly ignore, that those stats do not prove your point. This has been explained to you in detail before.
    He still fails to understand the concept of how linear regression could actually prove his arguments.

    How sad. American's public education is a failure. Evidence? Conservative who thinks that posting raw data proves his very specific arguments and refuses to actually run statistical models to prove that the influence of those specific policies resulted in the outcome.

    The notion that "I want the data to say this, therefore it does" is a sign of just how far critical thinking in America has fallen.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If raising taxes is a necessary evil, which I am not so sure that as a result of Obama's foot loose spending spree of the last 18 months it isn't, then how is it not part of the equation to cut spending at the same time?

    j-mac
    I did not say that cutting expenses wasn't part of the solution. I only said it isn't the only solution. You can't solve the budget problem without elements of each of 1) an improved economy; 2) expense constriction and 3) increased taxes. Anyone that isn't willing to see some budget cuts AND some tax increases isn't really serious about a balanced budget or is very naive about economics and politics.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why would you sak that as I make no such claim. And no, there is really no evidence that cutting taxes will help jobs. Historically we can see jobs created with a high tax base and with a low tax base, and us losing jobs with a low tax base and with a low tax base. In fact, someone would be hard pressed to prove taxes play a major role of any kind in creating jobs.
    Purpose of Business = Profit
    Increase Profit => Expand Business
    Expand Business => Hire more workers

    The only reason you would be looking for evidence that tax cuts help create jobs is if you believe the purpose of business to be something other than profit. I don't know, maybe that's uncommon sense.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not much according to actual data. We were functioning quite well back at the old tax rate, and doing quite poorly at the moment with the currant tax cuts. Again, you would be hard pressed to factually support your claim. I can't help that the facts are what they are.
    Were we functioning quite well at the old tax rate? I don't think you can factually support your claim...Bush says he inherited recession - Aug. 7, 2002

    The Clintons saw this coming and started blaming it on Bush while he was still governor of Texas. He was causing it by talking about it...

    I'm not one who believes a tax rate change one way or the other is a magic pill to save the economy, but justice is. If properly framed, this debate would be about the items in the budget rather than tax rates. Increasing taxes on workers in order to pay others not to work is the opposite of justice regardless of the tax rates. It's a poison pill for society.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Were we functioning quite well at the old tax rate? I don't think you can factually support your claim...Bush says he inherited recession - Aug. 7, 2002

    The Clintons saw this coming and started blaming it on Bush while he was still governor of Texas. He was causing it by talking about it...

    I'm not one who believes a tax rate change one way or the other is a magic pill to save the economy, but justice is. If properly framed, this debate would be about the items in the budget rather than tax rates. Increasing taxes on workers in order to pay others not to work is the opposite of justice regardless of the tax rates. It's a poison pill for society.
    That rate was there before the recession, long before, and during the good years with Clinton. So, supporting it is not that difficult. You also seem to misunderstand causal relationships.

    Can you show that the previous tax rate cause the recession Bush saw? And can you explain how the recession got worse with the Bush tax cuts in place, if tax rates are the major factor in these things?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #210
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Purpose of Business = Profit
    Increase Profit => Expand Business
    Expand Business => Hire more workers

    The only reason you would be looking for evidence that tax cuts help create jobs is if you believe the purpose of business to be something other than profit. I don't know, maybe that's uncommon sense.
    That's nonsense, as it relates to the question before us. I don't dispute the purpose of business. I dispute your three bullets have anything to do with what we're discussing. I dispute tax cuts crate jobs because there is no evidence they do. Business creates jobs when more people spend, suply and deamnd. Tax cuts have nothing to do with it.

    I'm always bothered when a argument that is so illogcal as you present is thrown up. It show a complete lack of thought or logic. That's distrubing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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