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More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

The new Census data will hopefully bring them back home to reality.
 
Boo Radley said:
You're find up until your third point. More profit does not automatically mean more jobs. More people buying means more jobs, not profits from tax cuts. You simply fall for a unsupported claim without digging deeper to find objective proof to support your claim. There is no evidence that tax cuts result in jobs. In fact, the most recent study says they don't. We have a thread on it somewhere. ;)
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I don't know what "most recent study" you're referring to, but I suspect something similar to Obama's line: "I can't find a single expert who disagrees with me on....(fill in the blank with whatever the policy push du jour is)..."

"Most recent study" aside, any expert who says that profits don't promote job creation has either a socialist agenda, sh*t-for-brains, or both. Anybody who thinks taxes don't have a direct impact on profits (not pointing any fingers here...:cool:) just might have a severe outbreak of ACI disorder.
 
FederalRepublic said:
I don't know what "most recent study" you're referring to, but I suspect something similar to Obama's line: "I can't find a single expert who disagrees with me on....(fill in the blank with whatever the policy push du jour is)..."

"Most recent study" aside, any expert who says that profits don't promote job creation has either a socialist agenda, sh*t-for-brains, or both. Anybody who thinks taxes don't have a direct impact on profits (not pointing any fingers here...:cool:) just might have a severe outbreak of ACI disorder.
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No one said that. So, first you have to be more accurate about what is being said. People who pay taxes often make profits as well. I am saying, however, that actual profits come from selling the product or the service, and not from taxes. Business always has overhead, which includes taxes, and yet still manage to succeed. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
You said people buying don't matter (supply and demand) and that taxes do.
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He didn't say that "people buying don't matter". He said that profit is the driving force behind job creation (not demand or supply), which is the same thing I'm saying. I might have a cultivated field full of wheat, and people would surely buy it from me. If I can't make a profit by cutting it and selling it, I'll let it rot. I certainly won't hire somebody to help me cut it. :confused:
 
FederalRepublic said:
He didn't say that "people buying don't matter". He said that profit is the driving force behind job creation (not demand or supply), which is the same thing I'm saying. I might have a cultivated field full of wheat, and people would surely buy it from me. If I can't make a profit by cutting it and selling it, I'll let it rot. I certainly won't hire somebody to help me cut it. :confused:
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Supply and demand is directly related to profit. If the demand is higher, which is the area we're discussing, there will be a need for more jobs and people will be hired. If the demand is low, I'll still seek to make a profit, but I won't hire. If taxes make my p[rofit higher, I still won't hire if there is no demand for more servicees or product. I'll just make more money. Demand is what determines the need to hire and not profit alone.
 
Boo Radley said:
No one said that. So, first you have to be more accurate about what is being said. People who pay taxes often make profits as well. I am saying, however, that actual profits come from selling the product or the service, and not from taxes. Business always has overhead, which includes taxes, and yet still manage to succeed. ;)
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You said that when you said there's no evidence that tax cuts help create jobs. You just said taxes are included in overhead and you don't dispute that profits drive job creation.

Boo Radley said:
Business always has overhead, which includes taxes, and yet still manage to succeed. ;)
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Well, that's not entirely accurate, now is it? Or have I been seeing all these failing businesses and exploding unemployment in my sleep?
 
FederalRepublic said:
You said that when you said there's no evidence that tax cuts help create jobs. You just said taxes are included in overhead and you don't dispute that profits drive job creation.



Well, that's not entirely accurate, now is it? Or have I been seeing all these failing businesses and exploding unemployment in my sleep?
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You're misreading. Profits don't create jobs if there is no demand for more of the services or product. The business or owner just makes more. All business has overhead, but overhead is not the single factor that determines success or failure (a different subject btw). you're mixing issues and misreading completely.

the issue is jobs creation. A business can make more money, but without a demand will not increase jobs. There ahs to be a demand for more, and if this demand is there, they will create jobs to meet it regardless of TAXES. The profit will come in the increased sales.
 
Boo Radley said:
You're misreading. Profits don't create jobs if there is no demand for more of the services or product. The business or owner just makes more. All business has overhead, but overhead is not the single factor that determines success or failure (a different subject btw). you're mixing issues and misreading completely.

the issue is jobs creation. A business can make more money, but without a demand will not increase jobs. There ahs to be a demand for more, and if this demand is there, they will create jobs to meet it regardless of TAXES. The profit will come in the increased sales.
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Joe, you are only looking at one piece of the puzzle in jobs creation and acting like the other factors have nothing to do with the overall picture at all. You are correct that demand for a product and or service drives supply, however a company is in the business to make a profit for their production of that product, therefore, it only makes sense that at a certain point, it becomes not worth it to produce if their profit margins are ate away by regulation, higher taxation, and alike regardless of demand.

Look at it this way, if a company makes wigets, and the demand for those wigets is high, and they run on a 9% profit margin, but Barry and the demo's hit the scene and determine that this company makes too much profit, and can surely afford to redistribute some of that for the greater good. So they set about to demonize the company over their profit margin, and increase regulation, and taxes of all kinds, even healthcare costs. The company now is down to a 3% profit margin, and you think they are going to expand given the governments proclivity to just reach in their pockets and take what they want? I don't.


j-mac
 
Boo Radley said:
You're misreading. Profits don't create jobs if there is no demand for more of the services or product. The business or owner just makes more. All business has overhead, but overhead is not the single factor that determines success or failure (a different subject btw). you're mixing issues and misreading completely.

the issue is jobs creation. A business can make more money, but without a demand will not increase jobs. There ahs to be a demand for more, and if this demand is there, they will create jobs to meet it regardless of TAXES. The profit will come in the increased sales.
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If profits are down, and you agree that increased taxes means increased overhead, then that will cause profits to go down farther, making it harder to keep salaries at their current levels and keeping people employed.

If the Dems want more tax money, they should be spending less time killing jobs. That's just plain ole common sense.
 
apdst said:
If profits are down, and you agree that increased taxes means increased overhead, then that will cause profits to go down farther, making it harder to keep salaries at their current levels and keeping people employed.

If the Dems want more tax money, they should be spending less time killing jobs. That's just plain ole common sense.
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No, I don't agree. The increase in overhead will be marginal at worse. There would be no reason for it to effect anything at all. There will be, just as it has been in the past, no notice effect on employment either way.
 
Gill said:
Learn to read:
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Learn comprehension. A high demand means more profit due to more sales, which means more need for more employees. That has a much large effect on jobs and the economy that taxes ever can. If you take your response on the whole, you're disputing this, which is silly on its face.
 
j-mac said:
Joe, you are only looking at one piece of the puzzle in jobs creation and acting like the other factors have nothing to do with the overall picture at all. You are correct that demand for a product and or service drives supply, however a company is in the business to make a profit for their production of that product, therefore, it only makes sense that at a certain point, it becomes not worth it to produce if their profit margins are ate away by regulation, higher taxation, and alike regardless of demand.

Look at it this way, if a company makes wigets, and the demand for those wigets is high, and they run on a 9% profit margin, but Barry and the demo's hit the scene and determine that this company makes too much profit, and can surely afford to redistribute some of that for the greater good. So they set about to demonize the company over their profit margin, and increase regulation, and taxes of all kinds, even healthcare costs. The company now is down to a 3% profit margin, and you think they are going to expand given the governments proclivity to just reach in their pockets and take what they want? I don't.


j-mac
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Most of that has already been addressed by the fact that they are in business right now in the first place. but it is me who is looking at the overall picture and not your side. I have not made the claim that there are no other factors other than taxes. That's your side. I say there are other factors, and offer up supply and demand as being more important than taxes by an overwhelming margin. Supply and demand determine more than taxes ever could. When people spend, someone finds a way to sell. And taxes mean little to next to nothing to that.

All evidence shows that a tax cut will not increase jobs and a tax hike will not hinder jobs. Taxes play no noticable role in business by all the avaible historical information. And that is the point. Business will adjust to a tax rate. They have to downsize or change if no one is spending.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, I don't agree. The increase in overhead will be marginal at worse. There would be no reason for it to effect anything at all. There will be, just as it has been in the past, no notice effect on employment either way.
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Less liquid, is less liquid, period. If we were in an economic boom, you might be right. But, we're in a period where the reduction in profits, even a small reduction, will have a significant effect on any given business capacity.

But, hey, don't believe me. When the tax cuts expire and Obamacare kicks in and things don't get better, possibly even get worse, you'll be able to see what I'm telling you.

BTW, what are you hoping to accomplish, by raising taxes on corporations, anyway?
 
apdst said:
Less liquid, is less liquid, period. If we were in an economic boom, you might be right. But, we're in a period where the reduction in profits, even a small reduction, will have a significant effect on any given business capacity.

But, hey, don't believe me. When the tax cuts expire and Obamacare kicks in and things don't get better, possibly even get worse, you'll be able to see what I'm telling you.

BTW, what are you hoping to accomplish, by raising taxes on corporations, anyway?
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There is no evidence to support you position that I know of. As to what I think is reason to raise taxes is easy. We have to pay for what we do. It's called fiscal responsibility. I personally think we need to cut spending and raise taxes. But as I said elsewhere, I understand cutting spending and cutting taxes, rasing taxes and raising spending, and cutting spending and raising taxes. What I don't understand is spending more and cutting taxes. That is the most irresponsible action by far oof the four possibities.
 
Boo Radley said:
Learn comprehension. A high demand means more profit due to more sales, which means more need for more employees. That has a much large effect on jobs and the economy that taxes ever can. If you take your response on the whole, you're disputing this, which is silly on its face.
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Once more, learn to read.!!! Can't you even see the word from my quote??? I even put it in red for you.

You can apologize now.
 
Gill said:
Once more, learn to read.!!! Can't you even see the word from my quote??? I even put it in red for you.

You can apologize now.
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I saw, and read it along with the other words in context of what you were responding to. So, no, there is nothing to apologize for.
 
Boo Radley said:
There is no evidence to support you position that I know of. As to what I think is reason to raise taxes is easy. We have to pay for what we do. It's called fiscal responsibility. I personally think we need to cut spending and raise taxes. But as I said elsewhere, I understand cutting spending and cutting taxes, rasing taxes and raising spending, and cutting spending and raising taxes. What I don't understand is spending more and cutting taxes. That is the most irresponsible action by far oof the four possibities.
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The obvious solution is to cut spending and leave taxes where they are.
 
Boo Radley said:
I saw, and read it along with the other words in context of what you were responding to. So, no, there is nothing to apologize for.
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You should go argue with a fence post... it would suit your debate style better.
 
apdst said:
The obvious solution is to cut spending and leave taxes where they are.
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Your opinion is noted. And it carries about as much weight as mine. ;)
 
Gill said:
You should go argue with a fence post... it would suit your debate style better.
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If you say so, but I said supply and demand mean more than taxes. You called me ignorant than made some silly statement about demand. In context, you are saying supply and demand are second to taxes. And that's silly.
 
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