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Thread: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

  1. #1021
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We don't live in that century. The founding fathers allowed for change and growth. It is ahrdly as clear as you think that they would not have grown with us, and done exactly the same or even more.
    "Change & Growth"???

    The Founding Fathers never envisioned a social welfare state; which is what we have and what has run us into the ditch. And those so-called loans made by force of government were nothing more than an extension of the welfare state.

    Those founding docs aren't some kind of suggestion list. They're the contract they set between the government and the people. There are rules of what can be done by who.

    Judicial fiat isn't in their plans. Judicial activism was not in their plans. Autonomous, unelected bureaucrats shoving law down our throat without going through the legislative process wasn't in their plans. The Federal Government forcing the people to buy healthcare was not in their plan.

    A limited government, strong where it should be strong (national security & equal justice), and weak where it should be weak (taxes/burdens/programs... playing Mommy Dearest) was their idea.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 10-30-10 at 02:05 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Ok Neo-Con, I looked at the figures again, and you are right. Touche. (Unlike you I am man enough to admit when someone else is right). Where the confusion was is that I was looking at tax revenues relative to the GDP, which still haven't returned to the 2000 peak. But as for just tax revenues, yes, they increased. However, as has already been pointed out by many other members, that does not reflect a positive for the economy because when you consider GDP, unemployment, deficit, etc., it is clear the tax cuts did not help the economy. Also, figures of course show that tax revenues would have increased even more had the tax cuts not been implemented. However there is no point arguing this because you said this...



    You have admitted that you will never accept facts, even if they prove tax cuts aren't good for the economy, based on your conservative bias. Therefore, there is no point arguing facts with you. However, I actually agree with part of your statement "Individuals keeping more of what they earn puts the power where it belongs with the American consumer, not the govt. bureaucrats." I guess your reasoning is, neither democrats or republicans are going to cut spending, so the options are, either pay higher taxes to fund our out of control spending, or pay lower taxes, thus keeping more of our money and let the chips fall where they may. I actually agree with your reasoning. Its "the lesser of two evils" so to speak. But we must understand, that position is a philisophical one, not an economic one. Philisophically, I agree, Americans should be keeping more of their money even if the feds don't stop spending, economically however, it appears low taxes and high spending are bad for the economy.
    Refute actual numbers and facts then you will have something. Anyone that has a problem with the people keeping more of their money is part of the problem not part of the solution. The fact remains we have 16 million people unemployed today and the number is growing. Raising taxes does nothing to put these people back to work and 16 million people paying little if any Income taxes is causing a shortfall in revenue.

    It really isn't that difficult, not like liberals have brainwashed you into believing. It is the people's money first, not an expense to the Federal govt. There is a reason that Democrats are fighting so hard against that basic reality, they want the control and that gives them the power. You keeping more of what you earn means you need that so called liberal help and that scares the hell out of the elite.

  3. #1023
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Ok Neo-Con, I looked at the figures again, and you are right. Touche. (Unlike you I am man enough to admit when someone else is right). Where the confusion was is that I was looking at tax revenues relative to the GDP, which still haven't returned to the 2000 peak. But as for just tax revenues, yes, they increased. However, as has already been pointed out by many other members, that does not reflect a positive for the economy because when you consider GDP, unemployment, deficit, etc., it is clear the tax cuts did not help the economy. Also, figures of course show that tax revenues would have increased even more had the tax cuts not been implemented. However there is no point arguing this because you said this...



    You have admitted that you will never accept facts, even if they prove tax cuts aren't good for the economy, based on your conservative bias. Therefore, there is no point arguing facts with you. However, I actually agree with part of your statement "Individuals keeping more of what they earn puts the power where it belongs with the American consumer, not the govt. bureaucrats." I guess your reasoning is, neither democrats or republicans are going to cut spending, so the options are, either pay higher taxes to fund our out of control spending, or pay lower taxes, thus keeping more of our money and let the chips fall where they may. I actually agree with your reasoning. Its "the lesser of two evils" so to speak. But we must understand, that position is a philisophical one, not an economic one. Philisophically, I agree, Americans should be keeping more of their money even if the feds don't stop spending, economically however, it appears low taxes and high spending are bad for the economy.
    good or bad for the economy is not the only argument or basis for argument

    for example, lots of things the government does is bad for the economy-such as all the welfare payments.

    but cutting taxes did nothing bad and helped those who already paid too much taxes.

    low tax revenues and high spending are bad. low taxes are not always the same as low tax revenues



  4. #1024
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    low taxes are not always the same as low tax revenues
    Quite the contrary as proven over and over. Low taxes foster higher revenues. Democrats once believed this too... but that was long, long ago. Before most here were born.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #1025
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Quite the contrary as proven over and over. Low taxes foster higher revenues. Democrats once believed this too... but that was long, long ago. Before most here were born.

    .
    afflicting the comfortable to buy the votes of the envious is what drives the dems these days



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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I read.
    Absolutely incredible how a young lib can read something and know more about whats best for a companies expansion and creating jobs than a successful business owner. Perhaps you could hire yourself out as a consultant

    :

  7. #1027
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Obamanator View Post
    Absolutely incredible how a young lib can read something and know more about whats best for a companies expansion and creating jobs than a successful business owner. Perhaps you could hire yourself out as a consultant

    :
    the liberal mindset requires one who entertains such thoughts to at least claim they know what is better for others than those people. ITs how you justify welfare socialism and collectivist rot



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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    President Bush spent more than any president before him, including Jimmy Carter, and this before the Democrats took control of congress in '07. The old school Republicans used to be a little more fiscally conservative but those days are gone.
    Bush increased debt 5 Trillion over 8 yrs and Obama 3 trillion over 2 yrs. At this rate, we can expect Obama to spend 250% more than Bush, assumming he gets reelected which aint likely.

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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Obamanator View Post
    Bush increased debt 5 Trillion over 8 yrs and Obama 3 trillion over 2 yrs. At this rate, we can expect Obama to spend 250% more than Bush, assumming he gets reelected which aint likely.
    If the debt is such a concern then why was it ok for President Bush but not for President Obama

  10. #1030
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    Re: More Democrats break with Obama on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    If the debt is such a concern then why was it ok for President Bush but not for President Obama
    Is this an act? The debt is never ok, it wasn't ok when Bush and the Congress created it nor is it ok with Obama and the Congress putting Bush spending on steroids. At least with Bush we got economic growth and job creation until the Democrats took control of Congress. Obama economic policy is the issue, we have low economic growth, low job creation, higher spending, and a debt that will soon be 100% of GDP.

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