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Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

We don't know if O'Donnel isn't electable this year. All we know is that to republicans in that state, O'Donnell is MORE electable than Castle. The only reason we "know" O'Donnel "Isn't" electable is because the establishment GOP and the media are saying it. Then again, they were saying it prior to the primary and how correct were they then?

no, what we know is that republican PRIMARY voters in delaware think she's more electable. don't you think primary voters are the hardest right or left, usually? so it's a good possibility she wouldn't pick up moderates, isn't it, especially with her lack of accomplishments?
 
We don't know if O'Donnel isn't electable this year.

Yes we do. She's not.

The only reason we "know" O'Donnel "Isn't" electable is because the establishment GOP and the media are saying it.

And the polls, and common sense.
 
And yet while you're saying "Compromise is required" you're ignoring the fact that the GOP in the state are refusing to "compromise" by acknowleding that their voters didn't want their candidate and actually giving that candidate support.

But compromise is required to WIN. GOP voters in Delaware refused to compromise; as a result, they now won't win where otherwise they would have. And as a result of that, they will be on the losing side of any legistlation or appointment that passes by an extremely thin margin.

The republican voters in that state are saying "We'd rather someone with staunch conservative values and who will run on those and push those, even if he may not win, then someone that has a better chance at winning but is going to do little good at actually furthering our desires and hopes for the country". Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that.

There is so much wrong with that that I'm not sure how any logically thinking person could justify it.

To start with, it's not just that Castle had a better chance of winning than O'Donnell, it's that Castle would almost certainly have won, and O'Donnell will almost certainly lose. Which means that basically, the vote was between a moderate Republican and a Democrat. It's making my head spin that so many conservative Republicans chose the Democrat in that race.

Haven't people been bitching and complaining for years that elections are voting for the "lesser of two evils"? And now that people are actually saying "Fine, we want someone based on principle NOT based on who has the best shot to win" suddenly we're condemning them for that and complaining about not choosing whose the most politically advantageous candidate?

The "lesser of two evils" to whom? As a matter of fact, the whole problem with this election is that it is making the electorate as a whole choose between the "lesser of two evils" by forcing them to choose between a staunch liberal and a staunch conservative, when they were perfectly willing and eager to vote for a moderate. Castle's standing in the state beyond the GOP had nothing to do with electability. When it comes to ideology, "lesser of two evils" is entirely relative, and eliminating the most popular choice will only contribute to the perceived problem. Frankly, if choosing the "lesser of two evils" means choosing the candidate who disagrees with you less, the only way to NOT do that would be to vote for yourself in every election. And since Republicans essentially chose the Democrat to win here, this time they, ideologically, chose the GREATER of two evils.

And when it comes to personal integrity, there's nothing to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell, so that's clearly not the issue.
 
The "lesser of two evils" to whom? As a matter of fact, the whole problem with this election is that it is making the electorate as a whole choose between the "lesser of two evils" by forcing them to choose between a staunch liberal and a staunch conservative, when they were perfectly willing and eager to vote for a moderate. Castle's standing in the state beyond the GOP had nothing to do with electability. When it comes to ideology, "lesser of two evils" is entirely relative, and eliminating the most popular choice will only contribute to the perceived problem. Frankly, if choosing the "lesser of two evils" means choosing the candidate who disagrees with you less, the only way to NOT do that would be to vote for yourself in every election. And since Republicans essentially chose the Democrat to win here, this time they, ideologically, chose the GREATER of two evils.

And when it comes to personal integrity, there's nothing to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell, so that's clearly not the issue.

One more thing: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_DE_915424.pdf

Both O'Donnell and Coons have a negative favorability rating throughout the state. THAT is choosing the lesser of two evils. Castle, as it happens, would have started out with a net positive favorability.
 
no, what we know is that republican PRIMARY voters in delaware think she's more electable. don't you think primary voters are the hardest right or left, usually? so it's a good possibility she wouldn't pick up moderates, isn't it, especially with her lack of accomplishments?


Does a Republican candidate have to have a liberal stamp of approval to be "electable" in a,... let me edit that, any state?


j-mac
 
One more thing: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_DE_915424.pdf

Both O'Donnell and Coons have a negative favorability rating throughout the state. THAT is choosing the lesser of two evils. Castle, as it happens, would have started out with a net positive favorability.

And was one of the Republicans that voted for an investigation of Bush, toward the ends of impeachment. Castle is no better than Spector was.


j-mac
 
Does a Republican candidate have to have a liberal stamp of approval to be "electable" in a,... let me edit that, any state?


j-mac

If having a "liberal stamp of approval" means not being 100% conservative, then yes, there are states where that is true.

Delaware, for example.
 
Yes we do. She's not.

And the polls, and common sense.

No, those things say its unlikely she's to be elected. At the same time, most of those things weren't exactly keen on her winning the primary far out either.

But compromise is required to WIN. GOP voters in Delaware refused to compromise; as a result, they now won't win where otherwise they would have. And as a result of that, they will be on the losing side of any legistlation or appointment that passes by an extremely thin margin.

Not, compromise would be HELPFUL to win NOW. As I've said, for one, I don't mind if we lose this one if it helps out in the long two. Two, difficult or unlikely is the not the same as impossible. If we went off the assumption at the beginning that a person can't win she shouldn't be the nominee anyways because it was pretty much written off early on Castle was taking the primary.

Additionally, you're assuming a garaunteed win, something that is ridiculous to assume in Politics most times especially with a republican in a blue state regardless of how positive the feeling towards them is. Second, you're acting like anything that would need a slim margin that Castle would've voted on the side of the Republicans rather than the democrats which is again a questionable decision since 40% of the time he was known to side with Democrats including on some issues that would be of high importance to some republican voters.

Now, you could say "Yeah, well those few times he does break the thin margin in the favor of the Republicans is lost". And that's true. The counter however can be also now that "Those things that Dem's win by a slim margin are fully on them, instead of some of them having his support and thus allowing them to gain cover and protection from criticism by claiming it was 'bipartisan'". Essentially, the notion would be that the amount of "slim margin" victories he'd give to the Republicans wouldn't outweight the amount of "slim margin" or even "decent margin" victories he'd give to the Democrats that'd allow them to claim "bipartisan" support to deflect criticism and blame if/when the issue goes bad.


There is so much wrong with that that I'm not sure how any logically thinking person could justify it.

You can't honestly see how a logically thinking person would rather vote on principle knowing there's a good shot they'll lose rather than abandoning principle to get someone who may do a few good things for you but whose negatives essentially make the good things a wash?

To start with, it's not just that Castle had a better chance of winning than O'Donnell, it's that Castle would almost certainly have won, and O'Donnell will almost certainly lose.

We're a few months out, similar could've been said about this exact same race in the primaries some months ago. You're young dav but you know better than this, you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch and make such ludicrously near absolute comments. Castle had a significantly better chance of winning than O'Donnell and a great shot at taking the state, but I think its ridiculous to say he was almost certain to win.

Which means that basically, the vote was between a moderate Republican and a Democrat. It's making my head spin that so many conservative Republicans chose the Democrat in that race.

You're using the same idiotic fallacy people use against individuals when they choose to vote Libertarian or Green party rather than Democrat or Republican as people scream "IF you vote for that person its really a vote for the Democrat/Republican!". No, its a vote for your guy.

Conservatives are choosing to at least be given the chance to vote for a person they agree with and IF somehow that they win will do things that make them happy rather than voting for someone who has a good shot to win but once is elected is going to do as many things in their mind that harms their cause and purpose as he does to help it.

The "lesser of two evils" to whom?

To the people who were voting in this election.

As a matter of fact, the whole problem with this election is that it is making the electorate as a whole choose between the "lesser of two evils" by forcing them to choose between a staunch liberal and a staunch conservative, when they were perfectly willing and eager to vote for a moderate.

Its making SOME of the electorate choose between the lesser of two evils, namely the moderates. At the same time, if it was between a moderate republican and a staunch democrat again someone is having to choose between the lesser of two evils, the conservatives. However, in the PRIMARY, the conservatives and moderates both had a chance to vote for the guy they'd WANT to vote for..the conservatives won. What you're suggesting is they should've voted for the other guy so moderates didn't have to pick between the lesser of two evils, instead forcing THEMSELVES to have to make that choice.

If the "electorate" was so eager and ready to vote for a moderate, perhaps they should've....oh I don't know...voted for the moderate in the primary. Crazy thought there.

pquote]Castle's standing in the state beyond the GOP had nothing to do with electability. When it comes to ideology, "lesser of two evils" is entirely relative, and eliminating the most popular choice will only contribute to the perceived problem.[/quote]

Exactly, it is relative. And relative to the people who voted for O'Donnell, they made a choice with their vote to nominate someoen they LIKED and could vote for with good consious rather than abandoning principle to nominate someone that could possibly win but would've been simply nominating the lesser of two evils regarding the main ticket.

Frankly, if choosing the "lesser of two evils" means choosing the candidate who disagrees with you less, the only way to NOT do that would be to vote for yourself in every election.

No one expects to agree 100% with everything a candidate says.

But when you look at two candidates and go "Oh god, I don't want to vote for this guy. He's horrible" and then you look at the other candidate and go "Oh god, I REALLY don't want to vote for this guy. He's REALLY horrible" and thus you vote for the first guy, THAT's the lesser of two evils.

If you're going "Eh, this guys not bad. I wish he had a few different views on x y and z, but I think he's going to be pretty good in Washington" and the other guy you're going "oh god, I can't stand that guy, I'm not voting for him" then yo'ure not "voting for the lesser of two evils" because I wouldn't say that first guy really falls in the "evils" type of category.

And since Republicans essentially chose the Democrat to win here, this time they, ideologically, chose the GREATER of two evils.

No, they choose to vote on principle rather than sacrifice it for the sake of winning and naught much else.

And when it comes to personal integrity, there's nothing to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell, so that's clearly not the issue.

There is a fair bit to suggset that when it comes to conservative values there is things to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell. When people talk about "lesser of two evils" you realize they're not literally suggesting morally, devil worshipping, type evil but equating evil in this case to "thing I dislike strongly/think is bad".
 
One more thing: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_DE_915424.pdf

Both O'Donnell and Coons have a negative favorability rating throughout the state. THAT is choosing the lesser of two evils. Castle, as it happens, would have started out with a net positive favorability.

What the state wide feelings on O'donnel is is irrelevant on whether or not conservative voters on the primary felt that nominating Castle would've given THEMSELVES a situatio nwhere they'd have to choose the lesser of two evils (with regards to Castle or Coons)
 
If having a "liberal stamp of approval" means not being 100% conservative, then yes, there are states where that is true.

Delaware, for example.


Not so. conditions can change. People get fed up with being lied to over and over. I know, and have good friends in DE, and I know this to be true.

If what you are saying is true, then 1) No state would ever have a chance of changing traditional historical voting trends. We know this to be false. and 2) It would be another move closer to actual one party rule, because if we have to compromise our principles (something that lost us the control in the first place) then how are we any different than liberals?

j-mac
 
Does a Republican candidate have to have a liberal stamp of approval to be "electable" in a,... let me edit that, any state?


j-mac

who is discussing a liberal stamp of approval? i'm talking about a candidate with wide appeal, which o'donnell is not.
 
who is discussing a liberal stamp of approval? i'm talking about a candidate with wide appeal, which o'donnell is not.

Good God, come on, you guy's aren't this obtuse are you? I know you aren't saying it, I am asking it....So how about you answer it?


j-mac

Oh BTW, ABC is reporting:

The National Republican Senatorial Committee will support the O’Donnell campaign, according to a statement that was just released by its chairman, Sen. John Cornyn.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/201...ctual-remarks-and-republican-cannibalism.html

So I guess it's on.


j-mac
 
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Here is the problem - Without a little pragmatism, the Republicans are going to fizzle. With it, the sky is the limit.

The Republicans aren't going to fizzle, get a grip. For someone that bashed Bush 24/7 for the last 100 years, you better damn well go for the gamble.....or never complain again...EVER.
 
The Republicans aren't going to fizzle, get a grip. For someone that bashed Bush 24/7 for the last 100 years, you better damn well go for the gamble.....or never complain again...EVER.

Just how old are you dana? :shock:
 
Seems she is a jew hater. Great choice GOP and the Tea Party.



IZZARD: What if someone comes to you in the middle of the Second World War and says, ‘do you have any Jewish people in your house?’ and you do have them. That would be a lie. That would be disrespectful to Hitler.

O’DONNELL: I believe if I were in that situation, God would provide a way to do the right thing righteously. I believe that!

MAHER: God is not there. Hitler’s there and you’re there.

O’DONNELL: You never have to practice deception. God always provides a way out.

Damn anti-semtic bitch.
 
Seems she is a jew hater. Great choice GOP and the Tea Party.





Damn anti-semtic bitch.

Remember that next you support Hillary.
 
What the state wide feelings on O'donnel is is irrelevant on whether or not conservative voters on the primary felt that nominating Castle would've given THEMSELVES a situatio nwhere they'd have to choose the lesser of two evils (with regards to Castle or Coons)

But you were saying that it was hypoctritical of people who complain about choosing the "lesser of two evils" to bemoan this result, when the opposite is true. The results are making voters statewide choose between two candidates they don't view favorably, preventing them from having a choice of a person who they view favorably. It is the state GOP's feelings on this that are irrelevant, since from the point of view of those bemoaning the choice of the "lesser of two evils", this applies to the electorate as a whole.

Once again, if the lesser of two evils is the one who disagrees with you less, this is going to be the choice you will have in every election where you are not personally on the ballot. Thanks to O'Donnell primary voters, statewide voters will now have to choose between two candidates they see as less non-evil than Castle, and they will probably end up choosing the one the O'Donnell primary voters see as being the greatest evil. It's essentially a lose-lose situation.


I'll respond to your essay post whenever I have time.
 
Seems she is a jew hater. Great choice GOP and the Tea Party.



Damn anti-semtic bitch.


I dunno about all that Pete...

but watching the rest of the video.

She's a complete ****ing idiot.
 
I dunno about all that Pete...

but watching the rest of the video.

She's a complete ****ing idiot.

I dont see a big stretch.. she refused to lie for a bunch of hiding jews, then she must either be mentally ill or a jew hater.. dunno what is worse. Regardless this nut job is now the GOP candidate under the Tea Party mantra.. and she wont defend Jews.. I see a big problem there.
 
I dont see a big stretch.. she refused to lie for a bunch of hiding jews, then she must either be mentally ill or a jew hater.. dunno what is worse. Regardless this nut job is now the GOP candidate under the Tea Party mantra.. and she wont defend Jews.. I see a big problem there.

The only mistake she made was being a guest on this circus show. I suppose the stereotype gay man and the black woman with attitude are suppose to represent the left? Nice. :roll:
 
Wow, after seeing that video, she makes Sarah Palin look like a genius.
 
The only mistake she made was being a guest on this circus show. I suppose the stereotype gay man and the black woman with attitude are suppose to represent the left? Nice. :roll:

Stop defending her gezzz, you are embarrassing yourself.

What she said is indefensible and you know it.. If it had been a left wing candidate you would have been all over it..
 
Seems she is a jew hater. Great choice GOP and the Tea Party.





Damn anti-semtic bitch.


Mahr is a buffoon. Constantly loads his panels 4 to 1 against the Conservative token, then spends a half hour mocking, and cutting off, or twisting their points. He is very dishonest...Are you throwing in with that dishonesty?


j-mac
 
The only mistake she made was being a guest on this circus show.

She better get used to it in politics. Not every interviewer is going to be an ego stroker for the right like Hannity and Beck are.

I suppose the stereotype gay man and the black woman with attitude are suppose to represent the left? Nice. :roll:

Are they running for political office?
 
She better get used to it in politics. Not every interviewer is going to be an ego stroker for the right like Hannity and Beck are.

So are you saying that MSM is more like Mahr, than like Hannity? Thanks for admitting the bias.


j-mac
 
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