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Thread: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And yet while you're saying "Compromise is required" you're ignoring the fact that the GOP in the state are refusing to "compromise" by acknowleding that their voters didn't want their candidate and actually giving that candidate support.

    Frankly, McDonald IS listening to the voters. The republican voters in that state are saying "We'd rather someone with staunch conservative values and who will run on those and push those, even if he may not win, then someone that has a better chance at winning but is going to do little good at actually furthering our desires and hopes for the country". Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that.

    Haven't people been bitching and complaining for years that elections are voting for the "lesser of two evils"? And now that people are actually saying "Fine, we want someone based on principle NOT based on who has the best shot to win" suddenly we're condemning them for that and complaining about not choosing whose the most politically advantageous candidate?
    i think you have to ask WHY some of these candidates don't have a chance to win. because a person espouses "tea party values" doesn't mean they are qualified for office. the system is working how it's supposed to work. in the case of O'Donnell, if republican voters think she's best for the job, they will vote her. personally, i think she's shady and opportunistic, THAT'S why she doesn't stand a chance. if the Tea Party came up with better candidates, they would get republican party support, or they would be a viable third party.

    the issue here is the quality of the candidates, imo.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i think you have to ask WHY some of these candidates don't have a chance to win. because a person espouses "tea party values" doesn't mean they are qualified for office. the system is working how it's supposed to work. in the case of O'Donnell, if republican voters think she's best for the job, they will vote her. personally, i think she's shady and opportunistic, THAT'S why she doesn't stand a chance. if the Tea Party came up with better candidates, they would get republican party support, or they would be a viable third party.

    the issue here is the quality of the candidates, imo.
    What were the qualities of Joe Biden that made him a good senator?

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    It strikes me, from the outside, that the Tea Party has created a very serious problem, not for the Democrats, but for the Republican Party, as a whole. The TP seems to represent just a faction of Republican thought, and one that is more polarising than the more mainstream party's platform as a whole. Die hard Rep activists seem to be very enthusiastic about it, hence these primary results, but there is a danger of the activists misreading right-of-centre America's dissatisfaction with Obama and the Dem-controlled congress as an endorsement of the most radically right-wing agenda of the TP. This happened to the British Labour Party in the early-Eighties. Activists wanted a return to fundamental socialist values and the failure of the 1974-1979 centrist Labout government seemed to suggest to them that more ideological purity and 'conviction' politics was what was needed. It turned out badly and Labour remained out of power for 18 years. The GOP might be in danger of repeating this mistake.

    Having said all that, it might be a good thing for American politics in general to have a very clear space of daylight separating the two parties. The voters might welcome a more obvious election between a secular, technocratic liberal manifesto and a more fundamental conservative, strongly religious one.

    These primary results have made November's elections suddenly much more interesting to the outside observer.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What were the qualities of Joe Biden that made him a good senator?
    wouldn't you have to ask delaware voters that question? i like biden for many reasons, his family life, his stance on issues, his willingness to go his own way.

    but he's not running, and the bigger issue is why ISN'T O'Donnell electable?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    wouldn't you have to ask delaware voters that question? i like biden for many reasons, his family life, his stance on issues, his willingness to go his own way.

    but he's not running, and the bigger issue is why ISN'T O'Donnell electable?
    We don't know if O'Donnel isn't electable this year. All we know is that to republicans in that state, O'Donnell is MORE electable than Castle. The only reason we "know" O'Donnel "Isn't" electable is because the establishment GOP and the media are saying it. Then again, they were saying it prior to the primary and how correct were they then?

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We don't know if O'Donnel isn't electable this year. All we know is that to republicans in that state, O'Donnell is MORE electable than Castle. The only reason we "know" O'Donnel "Isn't" electable is because the establishment GOP and the media are saying it. Then again, they were saying it prior to the primary and how correct were they then?
    no, what we know is that republican PRIMARY voters in delaware think she's more electable. don't you think primary voters are the hardest right or left, usually? so it's a good possibility she wouldn't pick up moderates, isn't it, especially with her lack of accomplishments?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We don't know if O'Donnel isn't electable this year.
    Yes we do. She's not.

    The only reason we "know" O'Donnel "Isn't" electable is because the establishment GOP and the media are saying it.
    And the polls, and common sense.

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And yet while you're saying "Compromise is required" you're ignoring the fact that the GOP in the state are refusing to "compromise" by acknowleding that their voters didn't want their candidate and actually giving that candidate support.
    But compromise is required to WIN. GOP voters in Delaware refused to compromise; as a result, they now won't win where otherwise they would have. And as a result of that, they will be on the losing side of any legistlation or appointment that passes by an extremely thin margin.

    The republican voters in that state are saying "We'd rather someone with staunch conservative values and who will run on those and push those, even if he may not win, then someone that has a better chance at winning but is going to do little good at actually furthering our desires and hopes for the country". Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that.
    There is so much wrong with that that I'm not sure how any logically thinking person could justify it.

    To start with, it's not just that Castle had a better chance of winning than O'Donnell, it's that Castle would almost certainly have won, and O'Donnell will almost certainly lose. Which means that basically, the vote was between a moderate Republican and a Democrat. It's making my head spin that so many conservative Republicans chose the Democrat in that race.

    Haven't people been bitching and complaining for years that elections are voting for the "lesser of two evils"? And now that people are actually saying "Fine, we want someone based on principle NOT based on who has the best shot to win" suddenly we're condemning them for that and complaining about not choosing whose the most politically advantageous candidate?
    The "lesser of two evils" to whom? As a matter of fact, the whole problem with this election is that it is making the electorate as a whole choose between the "lesser of two evils" by forcing them to choose between a staunch liberal and a staunch conservative, when they were perfectly willing and eager to vote for a moderate. Castle's standing in the state beyond the GOP had nothing to do with electability. When it comes to ideology, "lesser of two evils" is entirely relative, and eliminating the most popular choice will only contribute to the perceived problem. Frankly, if choosing the "lesser of two evils" means choosing the candidate who disagrees with you less, the only way to NOT do that would be to vote for yourself in every election. And since Republicans essentially chose the Democrat to win here, this time they, ideologically, chose the GREATER of two evils.

    And when it comes to personal integrity, there's nothing to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell, so that's clearly not the issue.

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The "lesser of two evils" to whom? As a matter of fact, the whole problem with this election is that it is making the electorate as a whole choose between the "lesser of two evils" by forcing them to choose between a staunch liberal and a staunch conservative, when they were perfectly willing and eager to vote for a moderate. Castle's standing in the state beyond the GOP had nothing to do with electability. When it comes to ideology, "lesser of two evils" is entirely relative, and eliminating the most popular choice will only contribute to the perceived problem. Frankly, if choosing the "lesser of two evils" means choosing the candidate who disagrees with you less, the only way to NOT do that would be to vote for yourself in every election. And since Republicans essentially chose the Democrat to win here, this time they, ideologically, chose the GREATER of two evils.

    And when it comes to personal integrity, there's nothing to suggest that Castle is more "evil" than O'Donnell, so that's clearly not the issue.
    One more thing: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p..._DE_915424.pdf

    Both O'Donnell and Coons have a negative favorability rating throughout the state. THAT is choosing the lesser of two evils. Castle, as it happens, would have started out with a net positive favorability.

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    Re: Dems thrilled as tea party win stuns Delaware GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    no, what we know is that republican PRIMARY voters in delaware think she's more electable. don't you think primary voters are the hardest right or left, usually? so it's a good possibility she wouldn't pick up moderates, isn't it, especially with her lack of accomplishments?

    Does a Republican candidate have to have a liberal stamp of approval to be "electable" in a,... let me edit that, any state?


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