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Thread: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

  1. #171
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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    [

    As far as justification, I would cite the 1st amendment and free speech. But I do find it interesting that only liberals like you seem to have the right to pose that it is ok to do something because your political opponent did it too.


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    I would like to point out I've been on this guys side the whole time. So please, don't paint such a broad brush.
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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Remember folks.

    Burn specific pages from a holy book = Hate Speech
    Burn another countries flag = Hate Speech
    Burn your countries flag = Patriotic American expressing himself in a wonderful and protected way

    Who said that?

    Mr. Straw Man.

    or Mr. Words In Mouth.

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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    As far as justification, I would cite the 1st amendment and free speech. But I do find it interesting that only liberals like you seem to have the right to pose that it is ok to do something because your political opponent did it too.
    Liberals?? You're posting some fringe-left extreme videos and grouping them with mainstream?

    That's the problem.

    Mainstream muslims are not radical extremists.

    Mainstream conservatives are becoming a rare breed or their voice is not being heard.

    Teabaggers are not mainstream.

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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I don't think it is....Plenty of "hate speech" coming from liberals against conservatives, just none that liberals will ever admit to.

    j-mac
    And I'll ask again, since you ignored it the first time around:

    For instance? (hate speech coming from liberals)

    Do you consider being called a redneck or white trash or an idiot Teabagger or wealthy elitist... hate speech??

    Calling you a bigot or a homophobe, is that hate speech?

    Identifying intolerance, fear, ignorance... how is that hate speech?

    When you burn up a holy book, you're expressing hate toward that religion? Why? Because you're afraid of them. (fear) Why? Because you lack the intelligence to know/understand that you should not be afraid of the religion itself, but only the radical fringe elements. Which is true of Christianity as well.

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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And I'll ask again, since you ignored it the first time around:

    For instance? (hate speech coming from liberals)

    Do you consider being called a redneck or white trash or an idiot Teabagger or wealthy elitist... hate speech??
    And I answered specifically first time around, you must not have anticipated that cuz you so obviously don't get it.

    Calling you a bigot or a homophobe, is that hate speech?
    It is if you are trying to categorize me into some sub group, isn't that what liberals say that conservative do to them?

    Identifying intolerance, fear, ignorance... how is that hate speech?
    Difference is that is NOT what you are doing. I don't know of anyone embracing the name "idiot Teabagger".

    When you burn up a holy book, you're expressing hate toward that religion? Why? Because you're afraid of them. (fear) Why? Because you lack the intelligence to know/understand that you should not be afraid of the religion itself, but only the radical fringe elements. Which is true of Christianity as well.
    Again you mischaracterize greatly. But I would ask you to name the so called "Christian terror attacks" occurring in the modern times. See problem is that even if you can name a few, the larger Christian community stands up with a loud voice to condemn them, something we don't see with the same force coming from the larger Islamic community. And don't give me the fatwas supposedly issued in condemnation of attacks, they are weak, and of low volume compared to response from Christians.

    Problem is hazelnut, is that you, through your words here so obviously do "hate" conservatives. you hold contempt for people you don't even know personally, that you meet over the internet because they hold different views than your liberal ideological viewpoint, that you attach names like "idiot" and whatever other disgusting name you can think of to troll like "pig" to them.

    I tell you what, if I want to hear trash like that I would turn on Ed Schultz, or Olberman, or better yet LINK TV. As for in here, you should have some self respect and tone it down a notch. Because what you are asking about is exactly what you are doing in my book, which is engaging hate speech pure and simple.


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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I would like to point out I've been on this guys side the whole time. So please, don't paint such a broad brush.

    I understand that. But correct me if I am wrong, are you not also defending Islam in attacking their perception of injustice?

    I asked yesterday if you condemn Hamas, and never got a response that I saw....Could you answer that? I have to hit the road now but will check Friday. Thanks.


    j-mac
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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I think that if he were revealing that this center was going to be built, then he would be expressing something of public concern. However, this is already common knowledge.
    The actual content of his expression is rather small. The only new information he is providing is that he is personally opposed to it and doesn't care for Islam. Neither of which seems to be a matter that concerns the public.
    I guess I just don't see how this differs from any other sort of protest or expressive speech. It's very rare that someone's speech actually reveals something new that involves the public. Far more common is that someone "merely" expresses their own objection to it. If I walk out into the park and say "I am opposed to the Iraq War," I'm certainly not telling the public anything new about the war itself. However, that is absolutely a matter of public concern and is absolutely protected expression.
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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I understand that. But correct me if I am wrong, are you not also defending Islam in attacking their perception of injustice?

    I asked yesterday if you condemn Hamas, and never got a response that I saw....Could you answer that? I have to hit the road now but will check Friday. Thanks.


    j-mac
    I defend Islam in that the majority of the people are not terrorists, or hold the same views as terrorist. I defend their right to practice because I believe in the first amendment.

    Also if you asked me if I condemn Hamas, I didn't read it. Can you provide me a link? But to go ahead and answer the question I don't like them, and they are running a despicable form of government.
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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The Harm Prinicple. You are the only one I've seen allude to it. Do you think the harm principle applies to Derek Fenton's hate speech?
    I read somewhere....that at a prison guard was fired for making anti-Semetic remarks while he was off duty.

    Violating NJ Transit rules??? Just wtf are these rules? Does anyone have a copy of the specified rule that was violated?

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    Re: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Remember folks.

    Burn specific pages from a holy book = Hate Speech
    Burn another countries flag = Hate Speech
    Burn your countries flag = Patriotic American expressing himself in a wonderful and protected way

    All the above are symbolic acts of protest meant to send a message to the state. It's only hate speech when it targets an individual or a specific group of people in order to offend, discredit, promote fear and hate or provoke a violent reaction.

    Hate speech undermines democracy because it stirs up nationalism and jingoism and usually doesn't contain any political message. So as a civil society we have to decide whether it is better to place a higher value on hate speech than on the value of privacy, security, equality, or the prevention of harm to people and property. If society chooses the former over the later then I don't think it's possible to have or live in a civil society.
    Last edited by Moot; 09-16-10 at 02:53 PM.

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