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Thread: O'Donnell wins Delaware

  1. #251
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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yeah, it matters a bit. First, it is stupid, and that speaks to competence. Second, I have to ask is she's stupid or just pandering. Neither appeals to me much. So, I have more trouble with it than the sex silliness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Personally, I feel basic understanding and acceptance of science is a pre-requisite to anyone in a position as important as United States Senator. I don't know this for a fact, but given her strong faith there's a strong liklihood she doesn't accept the science behind evolution. If she can't accept basic biological facts, I have to wonder what else she might be grossly misinformed on. Say, for instance, basic economics.

    edit:


    Oh dear.
    Yeah, sorry, but I really don't give two craps about what a politician's religious beliefs are, so long as they don't try to use their power to push those beliefs. Funnily enough though, that's the exact same thing I keep hearing liberals say in regards to whether they'd vote for an atheist or Muslim... guess religion only doesn't matter if it's not a religion they hate.


    Is this really so surprising? A good three-quarters of the population is Christian. Lots of them are "creationists" (whatever that even means - aren't ALL Christians technically "creationists"?), and lots of them are very smart. And the two groups are not mutually exclusive, whatever your view on that is.

    Really though, O'Donnell's excerpted quote is as nuanced as it gets, moreso than I would have expected. All I really see is her saying yeah well maybe it's true I guess. Nothing particularly controversial there.

  2. #252
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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    She's just won the primary, and polls before actual candidates are nailed down are pretty useless, so it's too early for me to proclaim she'll never win. Therefore, I must for now consider the possibility that she has a chance of winning. Now it's not so funny. Faith is not a bad thing for a politician. Blind faith is.
    Erm, what? She even talked about looking at the "evidence" in the excerpt you provided. Which, frankly, I find much more ridiculous than admitting creationism is based on faith alone, not science, since they're in two completely different realms... but if it's non-blind faith you're fine with, you shouldn't see anything wrong with this woman, who at least makes an effort to justify her faith with evidence.
    Also, "blind" is subjective.

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Yeah, sorry, but I really don't give two craps about what a politician's religious beliefs are, so long as they don't try to use their power to push those beliefs. Funnily enough though, that's the exact same thing I keep hearing liberals say in regards to whether they'd vote for an atheist or Muslim... guess religion only doesn't matter if it's not a religion they hate.


    Is this really so surprising? A good three-quarters of the population is Christian. Lots of them are "creationists" (whatever that even means - aren't ALL Christians technically "creationists"?), and lots of them are very smart. And the two groups are not mutually exclusive, whatever your view on that is.

    Really though, O'Donnell's excerpted quote is as nuanced as it gets, moreso than I would have expected. All I really see is her saying yeah well maybe it's true I guess. Nothing particularly controversial there.
    It's not the general beliefs. She's free to be a Christian. Many Christains understand science. And no, her stanment shows shows she doesn't understand scientific theory and what it means. That she has little standard for evaluating evidence. and that she reaches conclusions illogically. That's the problem.

    And no, she looks at evdeicnce that has little to no scieintific standing. Kind of like saying move.org is the authority of all matters concerning the republican party. Again, this speaks to her judgment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Yeah, sorry, but I really don't give two craps about what a politician's religious beliefs are, so long as they don't try to use their power to push those beliefs. Funnily enough though, that's the exact same thing I keep hearing liberals say in regards to whether they'd vote for an atheist or Muslim... guess religion only doesn't matter if it's not a religion they hate.
    Religion in general does not matter. I think that people can rule very well in spite of religious beliefs if they are given to the intellectual honesty and work necessary to do the job well enough. However, there are extremes within any religion, and the extremists are not so fit for office. To be a young earth creationist takes a certain break with reality and measured fact, and that to me is not a quality to be held by an elected official. The extremists rule by their religion, but government is made by man and subject to the rules of man; not god. You cannot trust extremists to not delve at least somewhat into theocracy. Yet another negative quality for an elected official. In the end, religion normally doesn't play much of a role. But if you're a crazy Evangelion like this girl seems to be, it's best to look elsewhere for representation.
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  5. #255
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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's not the general beliefs. She's free to be a Christian. Many Christains understand science. And no, her stanment shows shows she doesn't understand scientific theory and what it means. That she has little standard for evaluating evidence. and that she reaches conclusions illogically. That's the problem.

    And no, she looks at evdeicnce that has little to no scieintific standing. Kind of like saying move.org is the authority of all matters concerning the republican party. Again, this speaks to her judgment.
    It doesn't show jack sh*t. This is one issue we're talking about here, and it's one of the most bias-prone issues in any way relating to science. That she's chosen to stick with her religious faith does not show that she doesn't understand science. The only problem I have - and it's really a minor, inimportant problem - is that she tried to justify her religious views with science, which I find as annoying as atheists who think God can be scientifically disproven. But I'd vote for someone who held the latter view if that was my only problem with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Religion in general does not matter. I think that people can rule very well in spite of religious beliefs if they are given to the intellectual honesty and work necessary to do the job well enough. However, there are extremes within any religion, and the extremists are not so fit for office. To be a young earth creationist takes a certain break with reality and measured fact, and that to me is not a quality to be held by an elected official. The extremists rule by their religion, but government is made by man and subject to the rules of man; not god. You cannot trust extremists to not delve at least somewhat into theocracy. Yet another negative quality for an elected official. In the end, religion normally doesn't play much of a role. But if you're a crazy Evangelion like this girl seems to be, it's best to look elsewhere for representation.
    She's clearly not a religious extremist though. "As much, if not more evidence" for creationism (did she ever say young-earth creationism?) is a pretty moderate statement, especially compared to the general population, which is important since extremism is relative. A true extremist, though, would reject any notion that there was any evidence against creationism.


    Course, I'd vote for someone even if they were an "extremist" young-earth creationist, just as I'd vote for an "extreme" atheist. I've known exceptionally intelligent, knowledgeable people of both religious persuasions.

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It doesn't show jack sh*t. This is one issue we're talking about here, and it's one of the most bias-prone issues in any way relating to science. That she's chosen to stick with her religious faith does not show that she doesn't understand science. The only problem I have - and it's really a minor, inimportant problem - is that she tried to justify her religious views with science, which I find as annoying as atheists who think God can be scientifically disproven. But I'd vote for someone who held the latter view if that was my only problem with them.



    Her comments show it. When she talks abuot what a theory is, she shows a complete misunderstanding of what a scientific theory is. It is not the unsupported guess she portrays. It is much closer to accepted fact. And when she sites such an obviously bised and inaccurate source, that too shows her poor judgement.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    you have to know what a theory is and isn't

    this isn't

    it's much closer to accepted fact

    LOL!

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Yeah, sorry, but I really don't give two craps about what a politician's religious beliefs are, so long as they don't try to use their power to push those beliefs. Funnily enough though, that's the exact same thing I keep hearing liberals say in regards to whether they'd vote for an atheist or Muslim... guess religion only doesn't matter if it's not a religion they hate.
    Probably every person I've ever voted for has been Christian, so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. Obama is a Christian. Hell, he's our Messiah, remember?
    You may also have noticed I focused on science. You can't be a young-earth creationist and accept the basic scientific reality of evolution.


    Is this really so surprising? A good three-quarters of the population is Christian. Lots of them are "creationists" (whatever that even means - aren't ALL Christians technically "creationists"?), and lots of them are very smart. And the two groups are not mutually exclusive, whatever your view on that is.
    No, the two groups aren't mutually exclusive. But I'm not talking about Christians in general, I'm talking about this one.

    Really though, O'Donnell's excerpted quote is as nuanced as it gets, moreso than I would have expected. All I really see is her saying yeah well maybe it's true I guess. Nothing particularly controversial there.
    She said there's as much scientific evidence for evolution as there is "evidence" for creationism. That statement alone proves no understanding of the basic concept of evidence, let alone understanding of any real scientific topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Erm, what? She even talked about looking at the "evidence" in the excerpt you provided. Which, frankly, I find much more ridiculous than admitting creationism is based on faith alone, not science, since they're in two completely different realms... but if it's non-blind faith you're fine with, you shouldn't see anything wrong with this woman, who at least makes an effort to justify her faith with evidence.
    Also, "blind" is subjective.
    Creationism is based on faith alone. The "blind" part comes in when people accept what their bible tells them as literally true and assume anything that contradicts the bible to automatically be wrong because of it. The earth was not created in six days. Period. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It doesn't show jack sh*t. This is one issue we're talking about here, and it's one of the most bias-prone issues in any way relating to science. That she's chosen to stick with her religious faith does not show that she doesn't understand science. The only problem I have - and it's really a minor, inimportant problem - is that she tried to justify her religious views with science, which I find as annoying as atheists who think God can be scientifically disproven. But I'd vote for someone who held the latter view if that was my only problem with them.
    She tried to put creationism on equal footing with evolution when she talked about "evidence."

    Nobody sane has ever claimed the existence of God can be scientifically disproven. Or proven for that matter.

    She's clearly not a religious extremist though. "As much, if not more evidence" for creationism (did she ever say young-earth creationism?) is a pretty moderate statement, especially compared to the general population, which is important since extremism is relative. A true extremist, though, would reject any notion that there was any evidence against creationism.


    Course, I'd vote for someone even if they were an "extremist" young-earth creationist, just as I'd vote for an "extreme" atheist. I've known exceptionally intelligent, knowledgeable people of both religious persuasions.
    That's not a moderate statement. That's a statement trying to equate religious philosophy with scientific fact. It's an ignorant statement.

    The bible is not evidence. It's a religious text. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive, but there are people who cannot reconcile the two.
    Last edited by Deuce; 09-17-10 at 05:32 PM.
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  9. #259
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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: O'Donnell wins Delaware

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    71% of new yorkers DON'T WANT the mosque

    they're the folks with whom the rauf says his intent is to improve relations

    it's very simple

    ron paul is a nut

    neocon (LOL!) is hardly the face of the NEW GOP

    afghanistan is OBAMA's WAR which he ESCALATED

    you're talking over your head, again

    please proceed...
    LOL

    The reason a lot of you guys started engaging me was over that comment I made about Evangelics... which obviously offended YOU. I have done nothing but promote less government.. with real solutions, and you guys say "you talk to much" and "mutterings."

    I think it's fair to assume that you guys honestly don't care much about less government, you care more about having a vehicle to shove your moral social agenda down people's throats. That is more important than less government to you.

    Why don't admit what you really believe? That government is based on morals... not that we need less government to enjoy freedom.

    And you think Paul is a nut very well.. He has real power that you fail to see. He also promotes actually less government, than just talking about it. He wasn't too nutty for McCain to beg him to come to the RNC after KICKING HIM OUT, just so he could get Paul's supporters to vote for him.

    The longer you guys head towards a stricter party platform, the more true anti government idealist will head towards Paul and others with real Libertarians ideas in the party.

    If McCain had the votes of Paul supporters, he may have won the election. I refused to vote for McCain after he got Palin on the ticket. If you can't see the neocon values of that women, then you are blind and you need to look up what "neocon" actually means.

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