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Thread: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hardly. You arent so important that not getting to do something that you want to do - something that no one else can either - means -you- are being discriminated against.
    You're still sidestepping. Heterosexuals are allowed to marry who they love and are attracted to. Homosexuals are not. that is a difference. Try actually addressing that.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And that is what you have to prove, that there is a legitmatie government interest in preventing it. A just cause. A sound reason. And it is not proven that there is any actual negative effects for accepting homosexuality in a society. Much of that feeling is based on misinformation and unsound reasoning. But it what must be proven to prevent it.
    Sexual promiscuity brings down societies, homosexuality is the final form of oversexualization. (speaking of the clubbing gay people, not the normalized "adopted a child, trying to be a normal member of society")

    How does it bring down societies?

    Family units disintegrate, because the outcome of hyper-sexualization is jealousy, perma-childlike state of mind, overuse of alcohol etc. etc. (i.e. america right now, and formerly greece/rome)

    After the family unit has disintegrated all new members of that society will be ... horrible people.

    But ... divorce is a far bigger problem right now, and since that isn't going to change, screw it, legalize homosexual marriage; we are toast as a society anyway.

    The gay people who actually want to get married out of love, should be allowed to, but how do you meter that?

    What a mess of a topic, but I just don't think you can normalize homosexuality in a society without dramatic negative effects. (which honestly have already happened because of hetero-divorce)
    Last edited by SingleCellOrganism; 09-17-10 at 04:56 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're still sidestepping. Heterosexuals are allowed to marry who they love and are attracted to. Homosexuals are not. that is a difference. Try actually addressing that.
    I did. Not getting to exercise a privilege in the manner you would like to, when no one else can exercise that privilige in that way, is not grounds for an argument of discrimination.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    All groups have the same privilige; all groups have the same restriction. Arguing that some people might get to do exactly what they want and some people do not doesnt equate to discrimination, under the law.
    By this reasoning I could argue that people should only be allowed to marry someone of their own race or religion. Since all the groups have the same restriction it isn't discrimination. However, even so it isn't Constitutional. The state has to demonstrate how it has a legitimate interest in making such a restriction. It can no more do so with race or religion than it can with sexual orientation. That is what "Due Process" means. And it is also why I don't understand why you keep making such a retarded argument. It has absolutely nothing to do with Constitutional law. How does the state have an interest in limiting marriage to people of the opposite sex?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 09-17-10 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It can no more do so with race or religion than it can with sexual orientation.
    The restriction isnt based on sexual orientation.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The restriction isnt based on sexual orientation.
    Okay, its a restriction based on sex. Even better since the state has to pass an even higher level of scrutiny.

    Now answer the question.

    How does the state have an interest in limiting marriage to people of the opposite sex?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 09-17-10 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Okay, its a restrictioin based on sex. Now answer the question.
    How does the state have an interest in limiting marriage to people of the opposite sex?
    Its not necessary that I do - the state can limit the priviliges it grants however it wants, so long as eveyone suffers under the same restrictions.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its not necessary that I do - the state can limit the priviliges it grants however it wants, so long as eveyone suffers under the same restrictions.
    Wow, you are incredibly ignorant of Constitutional law. That is not at all how it works. For a law to be Constitutional, it has to pass due process. That is how we keep the state from unnecessarily intruding in our lives. A fact that use to be a conservative principle.

    The Constitution is the law of the land. The state can only place restrictions on us as long as they don't violate the Constitution. Part of the Constitution is Due Process which says...

    No state shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

    Marriage has to deal with life, liberty, and property, whether you regard it as a right or privilege.

    Since the marriage restriction is based on sex, it has to pass the Middle Tier of scrutiny of due process which says...

    The government must show that the challenged classification serves an important state interest and that the classification is at least substantially related to serving that interest.

    So it has nothing to do with discrimination or even equal protection, it is a violation of due process and an unnecessary infringement of the state into our lives.

    I ask again,

    How does the state have an interest in limiting marriage to people of the opposite sex?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 09-17-10 at 05:16 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    {blah blah blah....)
    No state shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
    Marriage is a privilige that exists only because the state created it, and the conditions under which the privilige might be exercised. As such, we're not discussing the deprivation of life, liberty or property; your citation of the due process clause is thus rendered irrelevant as none of those things are deprived by the restriction under contention.

    So it has nothing to do with discrimination or even equal protection, it is a violation of due process.
    Due process, as shown above, does not apply. Equal protection is met; there is no discrinmination.

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    Re: Pentagon: No Plans to Change 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy After Court Ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Heterosexuals are allowed to marry who they love and are attracted to.
    not if it their sister or cousin or their neighbors dog, etc. There are plenty of restrictions on whom a person can marry. the "heteros can marry whoever they want" is a BS arguement because it just isn't true.
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