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Thread: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

  1. #81
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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Socio-Political and Economic forces, you combine a poor, illiterate population with an extremist view and give them a common enemy, 40 years ago the communists were doing it, today you have islamists, as well as any number of separatists and political ideologue forces world wide, in all the cases, it is not the ideology that provides the motivation, it is simply a uniting factor, and then you have the nuts like Mengistu or Khomeini steer the forces in the directions they want it to go.
    Negative. Please do your homework

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Negative. Please do your homework
    Howzabout a proper refutation?

    I withdraw the poor, illiterate part in light of what J-mac posted, so you can proceed to refute the rest if you want.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  3. #83
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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public View Post
    It does. But I say this again, until it permeates:

    1. Islam's unique because the ordainments to massacre Jews, oppress Christians and kill other Muslims for being peaceful come straight from the 'prophet'. These commands are meant to be unchangeable, with Islam unreformable. Spot the difference!

    2. We've done bloody well in the West basing our culture and law on basic Christian principles. The Bible is sworn on in court and Jesus has no black, Adolf Hitler-style back history to show him up.

    3. Muslims still have a huge problem with terrorism and other extremism and supremacism, because they indeed lack things like The Reformation, New Testament, Archbishops recommended by the Prime Minister and appointed by the monarch, open and constant critical scrutiny of the denominations, a distinct lack of national leaders ordering people to kill for Jesus holding them in check... the list goes on!
    Unlike the West, which was shaped in its development by the Renaissance,
    Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution these pivotal events barely penetrated the land
    of Islam
    . Moreover, unlike Christianity that since the Reformation has continually
    updated itself and adapted to changing conditions, Islam remained a religion of the Dark
    Ages. For the most part, the 7th
    century Koran was still taught as immutable
    , since it is
    the Word of Allah exactly as the Prophet received it. In this sense it is different from any
    of the world’s other holy books
    that were created by human authors many years after the
    deaths of the prophets involved and then were edited, revised and added to by disciples.

    If as President Bush said, “the war on terrorism will be fought on many fronts”,
    then one of them should be sustained political pressure on our so-called allies to change
    their ways
    . For in reality the roots of international terrorism may not be in Islam or even
    the clash of civilizations, but in our association with dysfunctional Arab regimes who
    have spawned violent internal opposition. Instead of dealing with this resentment and
    rage themselves, they have conveniently deflected this frustration and fury against the
    United States.

    http://www.herbcohenonline.com/PDF/U...DING_ISLAM.pdf
    What I see with most discussions about terrorists and Islam is a boat load of ignorance and appeasement. Which will result in more deaths and violence.

    If we had informed masses in the west and put massive pressure on these regimes... we might have a chance of moving them out of the 7th century... and living in peace.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 09-13-10 at 03:59 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Howzabout a proper refutation?

    I withdraw the poor, illiterate part in light of what J-mac posted, so you can proceed to refute the rest if you want.
    Ok, fair enough, but lets wait for Jet to chime in

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's what happens when you institutionalize religious intolerance. Another reason we should always fight and strive to keep free the exercise and practice of religion.
    Hold on to your robes Ikari....I agree with you here.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why is it fine for you to use the power of 1.4 Billion as a number to defend those, then turn and tell me they are not a monolith when it is your turn to explain why they remain silent in the face of murders bastardizing their religion?


    j-mac
    because it doesnt conveniently FIT if you make it go both ways...why is that so hard to see?

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Vance, those are not considered terror attacks, but the Islamic method of delivering diplomatic messages.

    .
    Ah! I will consider myself 'reeductated!'

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why is it fine for you to use the power of 1.4 Billion as a number to defend those, then turn and tell me they are not a monolith when it is your turn to explain why they remain silent in the face of murders bastardizing their religion?


    j-mac
    Both are saying the same thing, that Muslims are not a homogeneous group, saying 1.3999 billion or whatever number you choose of Muslims that are not violent is not a contradiction of saying that they are not responsible for the actions of the extremist ones on the other side of the world.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hold on to your robes Ikari....I agree with you here.


    j-mac
    I don't wear robes, very inconvenient for motorcycles. But as it relates to the topic, I think it's another shining example of the dangers and pitfalls of theocracy. Once people can be freed from government encroachment over their religion, the religions can change and adapt to allow peaceful coexistence. The ME it's hard to see this because the most extreme and violent portions of their religions have been institutionalized through their theocracy, propaganda, and information control so that the governments and other agencies can work and manipulate the population to bring about their desired results.

    I really don't think there is anything fundamental to Islam which couldn't allow it to coexist in a nation with other religions. It's just a religion run by people, and we've seen religions run by people which can be violent or which can be peaceful; so it's functionally well within the land of the reachable.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In America, this is known as gay bashing. Who says that bigots who attack transvestites have to be Christian? At least, here in America, there are hate crime laws designed to tamp down this kind of hate. The Muslims, according to your own link:

    1) Want to shutter bars in their neighborhoods.

    2) Beat up gays, and other people they consider immoral.

    3) Attack those who they consider blasphemous.

    But you make it appear that the attacks are because the victims are Christians. Don't you feel that this is not the real story here? Why try to make it look like something it's not? This is about religious extremism, and extremists in the world have a lot in common, no matter what religion they are.
    That's the problem with ANY extremist. However, Christianity doesn't spread by the sword. Those who try don't have any supporting theology, and are widely renounced and fought. Phelps is always held up here as an example. He's a total whackjob with about 30 followers, in the WHOLE WORLD. He can't launch a global conflict. Islam is different. It has a theology that says if you're not part of the game, you get taxed, converted, or killed. As long as you carry a bigger sword they leave you alone somewhat. History has proven that. It's a religion of conversion. Radical Christians are irritating, but they don't feel justified in their theology that they can kill anyone not like them.

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