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Thread: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Both are saying the same thing, that Muslims are not a homogeneous group, saying 1.3999 billion or whatever number you choose of Muslims that are not violent is not a contradiction of saying that they are not responsible for the actions of the extremist ones on the other side of the world.
    No it isn't really....the example of Fred Phelps has been thrown out here, as well as those that let their beliefs overcome their own morality in killing abortion docs. Neither example is remained silent by the Christian community. Both are denounced publicly. Why don't Muslims do the same?


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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public View Post
    It does. But I say this again, until it permeates:

    1. Islam's unique because the ordainments to massacre Jews, oppress Christians and kill other Muslims for being peaceful come straight from the 'prophet'. These commands are meant to be unchangeable, with Islam unreformable. Spot the difference!

    2. We've done bloody well in the West basing our culture and law on basic Christian principles. The Bible is sworn on in court and Jesus has no black, Adolf Hitler-style back history to show him up.

    3. Muslims still have a huge problem with terrorism and other extremism and supremacism, because they indeed lack things like The Reformation, New Testament, Archbishops recommended by the Prime Minister and appointed by the monarch, open and constant critical scrutiny of the denominations, a distinct lack of national leaders ordering people to kill for Jesus holding them in check... the list goes on!
    Not only are they not uniqe, both books are open to interpretation. Permeates? Christianity has already had its share of atrocities. The reason that it has changed is that slowly as secular law becomes more and more accepted, people followed the law. Even then, Thomas Jefferson said, "although we are free by the law, we are not so in practice. Public opinion erects itself into an inquisition, and exercises its office with as much fanaticism as fans the flames of an Auto-da-fé.” (burning of heretics). All groups will take their philosophy, religion, whatever to extremes if they are not kept in check with laws that are unbiased for or against religion. I laugh when they talk about bringing Democracy to some of these countries, as if that is going to fix their problems.


    I think blaming all this on religion is too simplistic.

    There is also the reality of blowback. YouTube - Terrorism: Ron Paul vs. Giuliani @ SC Debate
    Even in the case of the OP I think Chrisitnaity applies, because they associate it with their troubles.

    I think there are so many reason why they have so many problems over there. I read this book a year or so ago and I was delighted to hear the author on NPR.
    (It would be nice if people read the whole thing, but this part is just about suicide in Islam and these extremist groups)



    Journalist Lawrence Wright's 'Trip To Al-Qaeda' : NPR
    GROSS:
    Now, you talk in your documentary "My Trip to Al-Qaeda," about the Quran and what the Quran has to say about suicide. And you said that the Quran says, do not kill yourself and that the punishment for suicide is to spend eternity killing yourself with the same instrument you used to die. What insights do you have about how al-Qaida managed to make suicide a holy thing, where these, you know, beautiful things happen to you as a result of it and you become a hero in the eyes of the prophet?
    Mr. WRIGHT: Well, it was actually Ayman al-Zawahiri who pioneered this. He was the very first to use suicide bombers, even before the Palestinians did, in his attempts on political figures inside Egypt. He even pioneered the use of martyrdom videos. And after 1996, when he had blown up the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, killing mainly Muslims, a lot of other Muslims were very angry with him and, you know, wanting to understand how can you justify that? And so he wrote a response to their queries. He compared the suicide bombers to the martyrs of Christianity.
    There weren't very many examples he could draw upon from Islam because of this absolute prohibition within the Quran. And it's really ironic that it was Christian martyrs that became the basis of his argument.
    The notion is that you are a guided missile. And the idea that you're going to be sacrificing yourself for a cause that's greater than you overcomes this kind of prohibition. It's sophistry. It's - in my opinion, many people don't really pay attention to the argument. I think that the young men that are drawn into al-Qaida with a goal of committing suicide have other causes driving them than simply Zawahiri's legalistic argument about how you can kill yourself and get away with it.
    I think that, you know, it's almost a total ban on the idea of suicide in Muslim countries. It's completely taboo. So if you are feeling despairing and you are the type of person that in another society might want to kill yourself, how do you go about that? Well, for one thing, al-Qaida offers you a route to paradise, at least they say so.
    GROSS: So you think that a lot of people who join al-Qaida to become suicide bombers are clinically depressed?
    Mr. WRIGHT: Oh, I think there's no doubt about it. And, you know, the studies that have been done about the young men drawn into these groups typically show them to be fairly well-educated. You know, especially, you know, the early leaders of al-Qaida, you know, professional men, well-educated, some of them not even very religious. So, you know, what is it? You know, what are all the elements? And if you're going to try to pin down a single word about what is it that characterizes the drive into this kind of radical reaction, I think a word might be despair. Because there are many different rivers that lead into despair, you know, there's poverty. There's political repression. There's gender apartheid. You know, there's a sense of a cultural loss. There's religious fanaticism. All of these elements are present in many different Muslim countries in varying degree.
    Last edited by Magill; 09-13-10 at 04:51 PM.

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Can you prove that statement?

    EDIT: I found this interesting Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 99.6% that Aren't | loonwatch.com
    The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).

    The above according to the report of terrorism in the U.S. Notice the absence of mention of right wing militias in the report. We could say some of the remaining 16% could include right wing militia types but this is incredible. Remember when Janet Napolitino declared right wing extremists as the big threat when she was appointed Secretary of Homeland Security. I guess she wasn't up on her statistics. How about those Latino terrorists.

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital



    Now come on...dont you pretty much HAVE to admit...these are 'moderate' Muslims???

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).

    The above according to the report of terrorism in the U.S. Notice the absence of mention of right wing militias in the report. We could say some of the remaining 16% could include right wing militia types but this is incredible. Remember when Janet Napolitino declared right wing extremists as the big threat when she was appointed Secretary of Homeland Security. I guess she wasn't up on her statistics. How about those Latino terrorists.
    So your point is we must focus on latinos and not afghanistan? How come it seems to me there is more bickering than actual logical arguments.
    And about Napolitano....ONE guy (a right wing "preacher") almost started world war 3 thanks to his utter disrespect for over 1 billion people's religion.
    But he has a constitutional right. I forgot. A Muslim who wants to have a mosque and 20 odd floors of community facilities after paying for the building and being approved by the city deserve outrage. Terry Jones has a right. Muslims do not. They all want to kill us. Greensboro church has a right. Muslims do not. They all want to kill us.

    So Terry Jones wanted to burn Quarans. It's his right. It's just a book.
    Muslims can not have a mosque and pray. It is not thier right. It is not respectful. They want to kill us.
    Muslims burning bibles in the US? Also not thier right. Only white people can do that in the US.
    SICK.
    and so it goes...

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Now come on...dont you pretty much HAVE to admit...these are 'moderate' Muslims???
    No.
    I'm a Moderate Muslim.

    They are not.


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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No it isn't really....the example of Fred Phelps has been thrown out here, as well as those that let their beliefs overcome their own morality in killing abortion docs. Neither example is remained silent by the Christian community. Both are denounced publicly. Why don't Muslims do the same?


    j-mac
    They do. I've shown you many times that they did, you refuse to aknowledge it.

    The only reason that Fred Phelps is denounced is because he's Anti-Troop...

    His views on Homosexuality aren't that out there in the bible belt...

    Sarah Palin refuses to aknowledge that Abortion Clinic Bombers are terrorists... SHE'S A TERRORIST!!!!!

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No it isn't really....the example of Fred Phelps has been thrown out here, as well as those that let their beliefs overcome their own morality in killing abortion docs. Neither example is remained silent by the Christian community. Both are denounced publicly. Why don't Muslims do the same?

    j-mac
    They do. You just don't care to listen.

    Muslim attitudes towards terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A common complaint among non-Muslims is that Muslim religious authorities do not condemn terrorist attacks. The complaints often surface in letters to the editors of newspapers, on phone-in radio shows, in Internet mailing lists, forums, etc.

    Actually, there are lots of fatwas and other statements issued which condemn attacks on innocent civilians. Unfortunately, they are largely ignored by newspapers, television news, radio news and other media outlets.

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    They do. You just don't care to listen.

    Muslim attitudes towards terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A common complaint among non-Muslims is that Muslim religious authorities do not condemn terrorist attacks. The complaints often surface in letters to the editors of newspapers, on phone-in radio shows, in Internet mailing lists, forums, etc.

    Actually, there are lots of fatwas and other statements issued which condemn attacks on innocent civilians. Unfortunately, they are largely ignored by newspapers, television news, radio news and other media outlets.
    And yet the best source you could come up with is Wikipedia? The REAL issue is when the many allow the few to define them by commission or omission, remain silent and do not police their own - well, they lose the right to bitch and moan

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    Re: Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    They do. I've shown you many times that they did, you refuse to aknowledge it.

    The only reason that Fred Phelps is denounced is because he's Anti-Troop...

    His views on Homosexuality aren't that out there in the bible belt...

    Sarah Palin refuses to aknowledge that Abortion Clinic Bombers are terrorists... SHE'S A TERRORIST!!!!!
    The more I read your writing, the more I'm convinced you see Christianity as the real threat to the "American way of life". I have no clue what pissed you off so bad to make you hate Christians so, but it truely makes me sad. You seem to fear Christians more than Muslims with respect to the security of the U.S.

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