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Thread: Springfield Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

  1. #121
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    My worth...

    While I have read the Qu'ron, I'm not a student of Islam as I am of my Christian faith. So, I can't speak to the Muslim culture here or aborad. What I can say is what we see of Muslim practises and culture in parts of the Middle-East are not what exist in the U.S. Look around you...

    When was the last time we saw an American Muslim celebrating the death of near 3,000 of their fellow Americans by dancing in the streets or firing off rounds from semi-automatic weapons in the air as if it were New Years Day? Have you ever saw an American Muslim burn an American flag? I'd be very surprised if any such things have ever happened in America in the 9-years since 9/11/01. My point is very simple and very clear: Radical Islam is not in America. It is over there.

    Imam Raul made a very good point during his CNN interview when he tried to explain the significants of separation of church and state. I believe the point he was trying to make is this:

    When you allow a religion to be the basis of your legal system, it is very easy to justify immoral acts in the name of God (or whatever name said society escribes to Him). For example, in American our laws are rooted in the Bible based on the moral characteristics of the Ten Commandments. Theft, murder, equal and fair treatment towards our fellow man (neighbors = society), immoral practises (adultry, lying & deception [bearing false witness against another], covetous) - all are acts that most societies find immoral and create social disorder. The difference were U.S. laws are concerned is we don't take the religious "justices" as absolute. We understand that stoning a woman for adultrey is "cruel" and "unjust". For, she didn't commit the adulterous behaviour alone. We don't cut off a man's hand for stealing. That would be "cruel" and "unjust". There are other ways to have the theif "pay" for his crime. We don't kill a man for associating himself with another man just because he practises another religion. That would be "unjust". The man is entitled to his opinion and is free to befriend anyone he wishes. The Muslim world, specifically in those parts of the world where these strict adherences to Islam are followed, needs to learn these lessons. Unfortunately, many Muslim leaders in the Middle-East are stuck in these old teachings. They could learn from our American Muslims.

    I would not be in favor of burning the Qu'ron any more than I am in favor of burning the American flag to signify my discontentment. There are other ways to do this. But first and foremost, we need to open up a honest dialog w/the Muslim world particularly here at home to understand them better. But most of all, we have to remember that the Muslims here in this country are our fellow Americans. They are our firemen, policemen, nurses, doctors, surgeons, teachers, engineers, receptionist, cooks, waiters, electricians, sanitation workers, machinist and neighbors. They did us no harm. In fact, some of the Muslim faith died on 9/11 as well, working in the same buildings, rushing to the scene as First Responders, trying to comprehend what happened on that tragic day and why just as everyone else. We must not ever forget that because the moment we do, "radical Islam controls the discourse" of what it truly means to be an American.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-11-10 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Why have you not "stood up" against the barbarity of the KKK? Christian priests molesting children? I haven't seen Americans in the streets protesting that!
    Many Christians , and others, stood up against the KKK, and anyone molesting children eventually faced justice. You do know that Muslims, inspired by Mohammed, are still "marrying" little girls, don't you?
    [QUOTE]
    You see people celebrating attacks on America. They see Americans burning Qurans. [/QUOTE

    Where have you seen Americans burning Korans?
    ]A muslim sitting in his home shaking his head and cursing the evildoers who crashed a plane into a building doesn't make the news, but he's in the vast majority.
    Then show the stat!
    Besides, there are some legitimate reasons to hate America if you live over there. It's not like the Quran says "DEATH TO AMERICA" in it. We, and by we I mean the entire western world, have this irritating tendency to drop bombs on their cities.
    You do recall who attacked the USA on 9/11 right? Just what are you talking about here?
    That annoys some people, go figure. If Canada dropped a bomb in Detroit, is there any justification you could think of that would make you be ok with it?
    If Canada ever did such a thing ever mobile Canadian would be devastated by such an event, and would immediately be out in the streets to protest.

    I hope you're not equating Canadians with Muslims.

  3. #123
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    I want to see legit evidence that Muhammad instructed every Muslim to kill Jews.

    Easily done:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058978145


    YouTube - Muhammed Said Kill All The Jews




    TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Verses of Violence

    Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."



    muslim kill commands

    MUHAMMAD: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him. (Sahih Muslim book 41, no. 6985)



    .....And so on!



    They're only following Islamic policy........... Hamas: Jews has to be exterminated - Likud of Holland (Contains further Islamic instruction to murder Jews specifically and without true cause.)






    Going back to source is about as legitimate as it gets. And Google around for your own Koran verses to confirm!
    Last edited by Republic_Of_Public; 09-11-10 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #124
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    But first and foremost, we need to open up a honest dialog w/the Muslim world particularly here at home to understand them better.
    That was done immediately following 9/11 when President George Bush attended a mosque to demonstrate that there was no grudge against the "Religion of Peace". Since then there have been more terrorist attacks in the democracies and further foiled attacks. It is time, it seems, for Muslims to understand Americans, just as you describe those Muslims living in the United States understand. Good behavior should be rewarded and bad behavior punished. But it must be a combination of the two.

    We must not ever forget that because the moment we do, "radical Islam controls the discourse" of what it truly means to be an American.
    Any part of radical Islam is unacceptable, and that must always be made very clear.
    Last edited by Grant; 09-11-10 at 07:13 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Bloody hell Grant, you're landing punch after solid punch!

    But then, with the truth on your side you have no need to breathlessly deny things and resort to bluster or make-believe!

  6. #126
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public View Post
    Easily done:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058978145

    YouTube - Muhammed Said Kill All The Jews


    TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Verses of Violence

    Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

    muslim kill commands

    MUHAMMAD: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him. (Sahih Muslim book 41, no. 6985)



    .....And so on!



    They're only following Islamic policy........... Hamas: Jews has to be exterminated - Likud of Holland

    Going back to source is about as legitimate as it gets.
    YouTube is a valid, credible source?

    Then you cite a Muslim-hate site that has absolutely no credibility.

    This is why all your posts are laughable.

    And to top it off, you posted a hadith completely out of context with a portion of it missing.

  7. #127
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    YouTube is a valid, credible source?
    It's as unbiased and without editorial governance as any other search engine or programme portal.




    And to top it off, you posted a hadith completely out of context with a portion of it missing.
    There it is! I nearly missed it but I caught it and framed it! AN ACTUAL POINT OF DEBATE! It wasn't a smear or a high-handed dismissal of a piece of evidence, purely based on the website which hosts it and nothing else....

    Phew, it took the opposition a long time to get there, but they made it! (However, no reason was given but let's not knock the wind from their sails at this point yet!)


    Which is the hadith, why is it incomplete and how is it out of context?
    Last edited by Republic_Of_Public; 09-11-10 at 07:35 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many Christians , and others, stood up against the KKK, and anyone molesting children eventually faced justice. You do know that Muslims, inspired by Mohammed, are still "marrying" little girls, don't you?
    Hah. You think that all priests molesting children eventually faced justice? That's a laugh. The church protects these people wherever it can. As for the KKK, why do they still exist, then? I thought we "stood up" against them.

    Where have you seen Americans burning Korans?
    I watched it happen with my own two eyes on September 13, 2001.

    Then show the stat!
    You think someone actually counts that? Show me the stat on how many people saw a bird take a crap today.


    You do recall who attacked the USA on 9/11 right? Just what are you talking about here?
    You do recall history goes back farther than that, right? Do you think a bunch of terrorists in Afghanistan, having no previous interaction with the US, suddenly decided "Hey, you know what? I hate America! For their freedom! Yeah, the freedom! Let's attack them!"



    If Canada ever did such a thing ever mobile Canadian would be devastated by such an event, and would immediately be out in the streets to protest.

    I hope you're not equating Canadians with Muslims.
    This statement just proves your own prejudice.
    I doubt that many Canadians would actually be on the street. Because I'm sure their government would have told them why they were bombing Detroit. "We had to take out a terrorist cell that was planning to cross the border and attack us. The collateral damage is tragic." But this isn't about how the Canadians would react, it's how you would react. Would you be ok with Canadians dropping a bomb on Detroit, even if they had a legitimate terrorist cell to attack?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #129
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That was done immediately following 9/11 when President George Bush attended a mosque to demonstrate that there was no grudge against the "Religion of Peace". Since then there have been more terrorist attacks in the democracies and further foiled attacks. It is time, it seems, for Muslims to understand Americans, just as you describe those Muslims living in the United States understand. Good behavior should be rewarded and bad behavior punished. But it must be a combination of the two.
    Granted, but it works both ways. We can't close our eyes to what's happening in the Muslim world, but neither can we close our eyes to what's happening here at home either.

    Any part of radical Islam is unacceptable, and that must always be made very clear.
    I think the West understands this, but again I say don't lump American Muslims under the same unbrella as radical Muslims abroad. Your post as well as those of Rupublic seem to be doing just that and it is troubling to say the least.

  10. #130
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    Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic_Of_Public View Post
    So you're NOT deaf, just truculent! I see...
    By all means, continue reminding yourself how awesome you believe you are. Proceed with the obnoxious prattle that you seem to be mistaking for rational discussion. Proliferate the word-smithing nonsense masquerading as debate for as long as you like.



    In other words:


    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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