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Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

TacticalEvilDan said:
Whereas it's currently illegal for gays to serve openly, versus the civillian world where discrimination is already illegal and still will be by the time the military catches up.
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You don't seem to get it. Racial discrmination is non-existent in military systems for a reason. It is simply not allowed and offenders are destroyed quickly. We simply do not tolerate unprofessional behavior and a disobediance of policy and order. However, racial court cases are always a matter for civilians aren't they? Long after gays are parading in uniform, gay civilians will be in court defending their rights.

I have stated this before. Hate the society that makes you feel ashamed, not the military that will transcend this and yet again prove better than the rest. We aren't allowed to hate. You all are.
 
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winston53660 said:
Civil rights are a never ending battle.
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Right....just not in the military. We are intolerant to disobedience to policy and order and the order states that racial and gender discrimination is not allowed. It's that simple. We don't have courts that seek ways to get the offender off the hook. We don't seek ways to set precedence that allows it under different circumstances. It's simply not allowed. The gay issue will simply be the same.
 
MSgt said:
You tell me. I was talking about age experience, but maturity seems more fitting now.
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I love how nobody has the guts to come out and insult me explicitly.

MSgt said:
Like I stated, you are all over the place and unsure of your own thoughts. 8 years of rift between the White House and Pentagon was about a lack of military support. I lived it. You can read about....or not. The last thing Obama needs now is more Generals speaking out to the media about how they feel about the administration. Clinton didn't have the luxury of only having to deal with one to fire. He dug his hole quick. Obama learned.
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I'm not all over the place at all. I've been consistent on the subject of support -- once again, no President needs it. He just needs the military to carry out his orders.

Please stop lying about me.
 
MSgt said:
You don't seem to get it. Racial discrmination is non-existent in military systems for a reason. It is simply not allowed and offenders are destroyed quickly. We simply do not tolerate unprofessional behavior and a disobediance of policy and order.
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Well, then, a repeal of DADT should represent no problem whatsoever.

However, racial court cases are always a matter for civilians aren't they? Long after gays are parading in uniform, gay civilians will be in court defending their rights.[/QUOTE]

At least gay civilians have the right to defend their rights, whereas in the military they can't be open about their orientation.

MSgt said:
Hate the society that makes you feel ashamed, not the military that will transcend this and yet again prove better than the rest.
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I've been pretty clear about not hating the military. Please stop lying about me.

MSgt said:
We aren't allowed to hate. You all are.
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Oh, bullocks. Everybody's allowed to hate, it's a question of whether or not we're permitted to act on it.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I've been pretty clear about not hating the military. Please stop lying about me.
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. . . and before MSgt has a chance to lie about me again:


TacticalEvilDan said:
Whatever. I'm angry because I expect better of you guys, not because I hate the military.
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I've also made it clear in several posts that my ire is directed at the individuals whose bigotry is so out of control that they'd have a problem serving with an openly gay colleague.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I'm not too unprofessional to sign up, I'm just smart enough not to. :lol:
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So now people who signed up for the military are dumb?

See this mods? This ****ing idiot just threw out a personal attack to all DP members who proudly served their country.
 
MSgt said:
It will. You are absolutely correct. The study currently underway will ensure as smooth a transition as possible. But what some of these people don't seem to realize, despite me beating it into their stubborn little faces, is that after the military has become comfortable with the issues, gays in the civilian sector will still be the source of ridicule in the media, hollywood, and television. The military will be fine. It's the civilian world that will have to have it's legal battles and marches just to catch up with what we enforce.
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Actually, Military gays will then be the source of ridicule in the media, hollywood and television.
 
Caine said:
So now people who signed up for the military are dumb?

See this mods? This ****ing idiot just threw out a personal attack to all DP members who proudly served their country.
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Okay, since you're going to both lie about me and insult me:


TacticalEvilDan said:
That's insane. You're telling me to join an organization whose rules I can't countenance, spend decades living by those rules, and hope that at some point I will rise to a position that will permit me to influence those rules from the inside.

No thanks. I'd rather just elect leaders who have the authority to tell you what you're going to do differently, and the moral fiber to actually do so.
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Now, if you can tell me how signing up for military service when I feel this way about the military would be anything other than dumb, I'd love to hear it.

Otherwise, not signing up is most definitely the smart thing to do, but doesn't mean that serving in general is stupid.

This is the part where you either apologize or evade and continue to lie, I leave the choice in your capable hands.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I'm not all over the place at all. I've been consistent on the subject of support -- once again, no President needs it. He just needs the military to carry out his orders.

Please stop lying about me.
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It's right here in this thread. You keep making statements and then contradicting them. I've given you three examples.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Well, then, a repeal of DADT should represent no problem whatsoever.
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Initially it will as did all social changes. In the end, it won't.


TacticalEvilDan said:
At least gay civilians have the right to defend their rights, whereas in the military they can't be open about their orientation.
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And...again you miss the point. After they are allowed to be open, it is your world that will continue to battle over it, not mine.

TacticalEvilDan said:
Oh, bullocks. Everybody's allowed to hate, it's a question of whether or not we're permitted to act on it.
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Well, sure on a philosophical level, but we are talking about real world activity aren't we? Any sign of hatred in the form of racism or gender is immediately dealt with. In as such, this kind of hatred is rarely seen. It's a cultural mindset that gets instilled. Civilians don't have this. Civilians take months in publicized court battles detemrining whether or not racism was even involved. In the mean time, lawyers manage to convince viewers to develop hatreds and to legitmize what they already have. Hatred on this level in the military is dealt with before the unit even knows it occurred and the punishment always serves as a reminder for others.
 
Caine said:
Actually, Military gays will then be the source of ridicule in the media, hollywood and television.
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You're right about that. Remember the comedians and Saturday Night Live skits when they decided that cussing was too harsh for recruits?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Can we please conduct ourselves as professionally as we expect our military to conduct themselves please? I don't want to break my mod hammer today.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
. . . and before MSgt has a chance to lie about me again:
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No lies. Your words.



TacticalEvilDan said:
I've also made it clear in several posts that my ire is directed at the individuals whose bigotry is so out of control that they'd have a problem serving with an openly gay colleague.
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Let's be even clearer. Your "ire" is very much directed towards those who aren't even in and is thusly wasted. I've offerred you a clearer picture inside the Active Duty (at least within the Marine Corps, which is as alpha male as you are going to get), yet you choose to be angry over the opinions of former military members who have nothing to do with nothing anymore.
 
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MSgt said:
And...again you miss the point. After they are allowed to be open, it is your world that will continue to battle over it, not mine.
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Right back atcha, seeing as how you keep forgetting that there is a whole lot more discipline and significantly less freedom in the military than there is in the civilian world.

MSgt said:
Well, sure on a philosophical level, but we are talking about real world activity aren't we? Any sign of hatred in the form of racism or gender is immediately dealt with. In as such, this kind of hatred is rarely seen. It's a cultural mindset that gets instilled. Civilians don't have this. Civilians take months in publicized court battles detemrining whether or not racism was even involved. In the mean time, lawyers manage to convince viewers to develop hatreds and to legitmize what they already have. Hatred on this level in the military is dealt with before the unit even knows it occurred and the punishment always serves as a reminder for others.
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Yeah, you get that when you have a whole other legal system and structure / discipline out the yin-yang.
 
MSgt said:
You're right about that. Remember the comedians and Saturday Night Live skits when they decided that cussing was too harsh for recruits?
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Yeah, Who made that stupid ass call anyways?

The generation below mine, and the one below theirs are going to be ****ed.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Right back atcha, seeing as how you keep forgetting that there is a whole lot more discipline and significantly less freedom in the military than there is in the civilian world.
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Yet, you behave as if it is the military that keeps you down. We are an organization on the side. We are not the society you see every single day.


TacticalEvilDan said:
Yeah, you get that when you have a whole other legal system and structure / discipline out the yin-yang.
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Again....it's society that you will have to contend with. Gays in the military will have a far easier time in the end. Just like women and just like blacks. And hell, the trurth is that they will have it easier because it won't be so obvious (at least not in the Army or Corps). There is an obvious flamboyant gay in my BAS (Navy). And guess what? Nobody really cares.
 
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Caine said:
Yeah, Who made that stupid ass call anyways?

The generation below mine, and the one below theirs are going to be ****ed.
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It was politically correct Clinton era nonesense, but I have no idea how "mothers of America" made it the issue they did. I think it came about over the Force Recon hazing issue that got blasted across television.
 
MSgt said:
Yet, you behave as if it is the military that keeps you down. We are an organization on the side. We are not the society you see every single day.
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Not me. Gay service-members.

MSgt said:
Again....it's society that you will have to contend with. Gays in the military will have a far easier time in the end. Just like women and just like blacks.
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Right. Because, again, more freedom and no command structure.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Not me. Gay service-members.
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Give me a break. You want the military to make a statement for you. Don't you worry about gays in the military. All will be fine for them.

You remember (or were aware) when female politicians went through that phase of insisting that females should be allowed into the infantry? Do you think any of them were going to sign up or do you think they were merely wanting the military to make yet another social statement for the country? This is the same crap. Most gays in the military don't care about "coming out," because they aren't targetted as you people think. You just want to make your statement as you steer clear of service.
 
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MSgt said:
Give me a break. You want the military to make a statement for you. Don't you worry about gays in the military. All will be fine for them.
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Well, thank you for telling me what I want. Obviously you know that so much better than I do. :lol:

Just so you don't get "confused" about that, I was being sarcastic.
 
MSgt said:
This is the same crap. Most gays in the military don't care about "coming out," because they aren't targetted as you people think. You just want to make your statement as you steer clear of service.
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Wait, you mean they arent targeted cause they havent come out? Right....
 
MSgt said:
Give me a break. You want the military to make a statement for you. Don't you worry about gays in the military. All will be fine for them.

You remember (or were aware) when female politicians went through that phase of insisting that females should be allowed into the infantry? Do you think any of them were going to sign up or do you think they were merely wanting the military to make yet another social statement for the country? This is the same crap. Most gays in the military don't care about "coming out," because they aren't targetted as you people think.
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Wow, way to edit your statement after I replied to it.

At any rate, they're plenty targeted, or else there wouldn't be ousted gay service-members to read about.

MSgt said:
You just want to make your statement as you steer clear of service.
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Really? I do?

Could you tell me what else I want? Am I hungry for pizza or a sandwich? Would I prefer a blowjob or butt-sex?

Come on, come on, I'm in a hurry and I need you to tell me what I want so I can get on with wanting it already!
 
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