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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm not talking about tactics. I'm talking about tactical readiness, basically, "what makes a tactical unit tick". The civilian that understand that is the exception, not the rule.
    Again, most people in the military do not really understand that, nor do you need to be in the military to understand it. In point of fact, it's easier to understand social dynamics when looking from the outside in.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Again, most people in the military do not really understand that, nor do you need to be in the military to understand it. In point of fact, it's easier to understand social dynamics when looking from the outside in.
    It's pratically impossible for someone that isn't, or has never been, in the military to understand the social dynamics of a combat arms unit. Anyone who does, doesn't share your view on DADT.

    You're not even familiar with the directives that banned gays and put DADT in place, but you're an expert on everything else? I don't buy it, sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Loaded statement. There is no turning on a dime. This has been coming for some time.
    Exactly. Even Obama has been slow to impliment this change. He knew that this is transitional and not a simple flip of the switch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Further, the threat about needing the military's support is juvenile and not of any value.

    Ask Clinton about that. Obama sure paid attention. "America Between the Wars" is a great book that sources what I've stated. There was a great rift between the Pentagon and the White House until half way into his second term. His need to compromise with the military over DADT is an obvious case for what I'm talking about. He did not receive support and thusly compromised his political grandstanding in front of the entire world. His visitations to military bases were few and he relied heavily upon Colin Powell as a liaison. When it came to dropping the military into one humanitarian mission after another, he remained shy about his orders.

    Or are the duo non-partisan writers of this book also "juvenile?" These are truths that require more than a baseless opinion of things, which I am always beyond.

    As far as Obama, slyly working with the military to impliment change is a tell on how far he is willing to go to create a rift. He has addressed this issue differently than Clinton for an obvious and bold reason. He learned from Clinton. Even firing that General was a touchy and sensitive issue handled with great political care.

    "Juvenile" is the simpleton thinking that a lack of military support implies a sitin or a rebellion.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I wasn't old enough to vote for Clinton the first time, and I didn't give enough of a damn yet to do it the second time.
    Well this explains some of your attitude.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post

    I don't see why any President needs the support of the military. If you are in the military, your job is, ultimately, to carry out the President's orders. To do otherwise falls under a host of unsavory crimes that are definite career-enders.
    You'll never understand this. If you were old enough to pay attention to what went on between the White House and the Pentagon under Clinton then you may undersatand what I mean. If you read, read this...."America Between the Wars: From 11/9 to 9/11 ."

    A lack of military support does not mean rebellion. But it will damn sure screw up your policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I don't think he had to. I think what he had to do was have the balls to tell the generals how it was going to be. He didn't have the balls, and that sucks.
    Obviously, the most powerful man in the world felt that he did. I wonder why. Perhaps a lack of military support and a need for it in his future presidency meant something.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-12-10 at 04:21 PM.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, not really. Civilians can, if they care to, understand tactics as well as or better than most soldiers.
    There's a grave difference between theory and practice. You may as well state that the veteran of the classroom trumps the veteran of the battlefield. This is why civilians have been screwing up ourpolicies and military activites since WWII. They think a book makes them experts.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-12-10 at 04:24 PM.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well this explains some of your attitude.
    Are you questioning my maturity? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You'll never understand this. If you were old enough to pay attention to what went on between the White House and the Pentagon under Clinton then you may undersatand what I mean.
    Oh, blah blah blah. I guess we'd better stop teaching history in high school in college, since unless you lived it and paid attention to it at the time, your opinion doesn't mean squat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    A lack of military support does not mean rebellion.
    I never said it did. I was talking about following orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Obviously, the most powerful man in the world felt that he did. I wonder why. Perhaps a lack of military support and a need for it in his future presidency meant something.
    No President needs the support of the military, unless the military is willing to rebel, execute a coup, and throw out the Constitution.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The civilian sector does not discriminate against gays except very rarely. The best the military can hope to do is be as good in this area as the civilian sector.
    Sure, and when gays serve openly in the military, free from the threat of being fired, civilians will still be in courts defending their rights.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Sure, and when gays serve openly in the military, free from the threat of being fired, civilians will still be in courts defending their rights.
    Whereas it's currently illegal for gays to serve openly, versus the civillian world where discrimination is already illegal and still will be by the time the military catches up.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Sure, and when gays serve openly in the military, free from the threat of being fired, civilians will still be in courts defending their rights.
    Civil rights are a never ending battle.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Are you questioning my maturity? Really?

    .......Oh, blah blah blah.
    You tell me. I was talking about age experience, but maturity seems more fitting now.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I guess we'd better stop teaching history in high school in college, since unless you lived it and paid attention to it at the time, your opinion doesn't mean squat.
    I gave you a book. There are plenty. I can only lead a horse to water..... You will find that more truth comes from reading outside of a prescribed text book.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I never said it did. I was talking about following orders.
    Yet....

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No President needs the support of the military, unless the military is willing to rebel, execute a coup, and throw out the Constitution.
    Like I stated, you are all over the place and unsure of your own thoughts. 8 years of rift between the White House and Pentagon was about a lack of military support. I lived it. You can read about....or not. The last thing Obama needs now is more Generals speaking out to the media about how they feel about the administration. Clinton didn't have the luxury of only having to deal with one to fire. He dug his hole quick. Obama learned. This is why his opinions about Iraq had been less defiant after he took office. This is why his beliefs on gays in the military have been slow to the draw and have been eased into our world. He's not the dip**** Republicans want him to be and he's not the bold leader Democracts pretend him to be.

    Most of this is common sense.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-12-10 at 04:39 PM.

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