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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Until, the company commander is ****ing the wife of one his platoon sargeants. Then it can become a problem.
    That is a problem and should be dealt with accordingly, that's my point, but if a married blokes boinking his neighbours wife, completely seperate from his military life, I don't see a problem.
    These regulations are in place, to keep good order among the ranks, for the good of the service. Not to discriminate against anyone.

    Good order, morale and discipline take priority over political correctness. People's lives are at stake.
    Peoples lives will not be risked by a bloke going home from base and buggering another bloke. Moral, order and discipline will still be in place, and people won't have to worry about good soldiers being discharged for off-base behaviour that doesn't affect their service.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Very well, I stand corrected. Oral sex and anal sex are prohibited under the article. What's the rationale there?
    It's in the interest of the good order of the service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall the UCMJ classifies every sexual act between a man and woman other than the missionary position as sodomy.

    you are referring to UCMJ article 125

    Text.

    “(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

    (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Elements.

    (1) That the accused engaged in unnatural carnal copulation with a certain other person or with an animal. (Note: Add either or both of the following elements, if applicable)

    (2) That the act was done with a child under the age of 16.

    (3) That the act was done by force and without the consent of the other person.

    Explanation.

    It is unnatural carnal copulation for a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or anus of another person or of an animal; or to have carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except the sexual parts, with another person; or to have carnal copulation with an animal.


    it's not just the UCMJ. look up the word sodomy in any dictionary and see what you get. most of them mention anal or oral copulation between persons or a person and an animal.

    One would hope that, in light of this ruling that the UCMJ would be ammended. I doubt if there are very many heterosexuals in the military that haven't violated 125 at one point or another.

    But leave in the bit about animals...that's just nasty

    As far as DADT, I think it was a stupid idea all along. I have served with and supervised a number of gay soldiers during my time. I didn't ask, they didn't tell...but I could tell and I really didn't give a rat's ass as long as they were doing their job.

    The flaming homos that most of the kneejerkers fear are not the kind of people that would ever join the military in the first place, so no one has to worry about being sodomized in the barracks shower.

    getting rid of DADT will not result in a massive flood of gays rushing to join the military. most of the gays who would be inclined to join already do so, they just try to keep their status secret.

    Any man, woman, gay, or lesbian that has the courage and fortitude to serve their country should be allowed to do so openly and with pride.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm speculating that the commander was a female and had been rebuked by one, or both of these airmen. See how having gays serving in the military can be detrimental to good order?
    And this could happen with straight soldiers also. So your point fails.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's in the interest of the good order of the service.
    How does it promote the interest of the good order of the service?
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Then, as much as I hate to say it, you are more reasonable than many. As a veteran, if you were never lucky enough to see a witch hunt occur at any of your stations, then you have no idea how the atmosphere can be. It is pretty dreadful. There are weak commanders..there are strong commanders. But there will ALWAYS be those so homphobic, or so generally scared or bigoted, that they don't care about facts and hard evidence. And those accused may also be weak, and not willing to fight it. Sometimes it is easier to slink away. That they were put into a position where they had this choice to make is the shame of it.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's in the interest of the good order of the service.
    Well I figured that much. Is there anything specific to those acts that is any more harmful to good order than coitus? I ask that sincerely, as I really don't understand why it would be.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    But leave in the bit about animals...that's just nasty
    Yeah, if you're getting it on with an animal, you need to be in an institution other than the military. Nasty.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Well I figured that much. Is there anything specific to those acts that is any more harmful to good order than coitus? I ask that sincerely, as I really don't understand why it would be.
    Well duh. We can't have our soldiers getting blow jobs off-duty. THERE ARE LIVES AT STAKE HERE!!!!!1!1!1!!11

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Well I figured that much. Is there anything specific to those acts that is any more harmful to good order than coitus? I ask that sincerely, as I really don't understand why it would be.
    My husband has always said that nobody under the age of 45 is mature enough to handle sex. I have to agree with them. Sex will ALWAYS cause problems in any organization. Many businesses have clauses which prohibit fraternization and romantic relationships between their employees, because they are aware of this. You have a couple who work together..they break up, or have a fight, and all of a sudden, you have 2 people who are most likely not working as they should be..People are STUPID about sex. Sex turns us all into idiots! it does not matter if you are gay or straight. You want to make rid the military of this problem? Fine..mandatory castration for all men, and ..hmm..not sure how you remove the sex drive from women. But wait..that would get rid of the sexual urges, but how about relationships? Oh screw it..make robots. There you go. No more problems.
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